We knew it would happen. Geohot released on his blog the PS3 “root key” and various tools to run homebrew on the PS3. Geohot posted on his blog the following:
As of 1/11/2011 7:20 PM EST, I have been served with papers, see below…
Motion For TRO
Proposed Orderold front page, with relevant info removed, is here
contact me geohot … gmail
You can download the court papers here (an interesting read):
Fail0verflow is also stuck in the mess, here is some responses from the team:
From Fail0verflow’s Twitter http://twitter.com/#!/fail0…
“Looks like Sony decided to ignore the facts and sue us all for it. See http://geohot.com/”From Hector Martin’s Twitter
http://twitter.com/#!/marca…
“Ah, so Sony decided to sue everyone under US law. Guess I won’t be visiting the US in a while…”From Muscle Nerd’s Twitter
http://twitter.com/#!/Muscl…
“EFF has done a fantastic job keeping iPhone jailbreaks (not piracy!) legal..hope they can do the same with this PS3 news”
List of charges:
- Confidential Information On Computer
- Intent To Defraud And Obtain Value
- Knowing Transmission of Code
- Intentional and Reckless Damage And Loss
- Trafficking in Password
- Intent to Extort
Seems like Sony isn’t planning going down without some payback first. What are your thoughts about this? What do you think will be the outcome of this case? Let us know by replying below
UPDATE:
According to PSGroove, Geohot response is now available, you can view the response HERE. The response basically defends Geohot and claims that Sony’s actions are not justified against Geohot. Furthermore you can also see refiled documents by Sony outlining tactics similar to the PSJailbreak lawsuit (view HERE).
UPDATE 2:
Sony failed in attempts to get a restraining order on Geohot, to quote @ Geohots Blog: “ As of 2:00 PM EST, 1/14/2011, I am not subject to any TROs“
Update 3:
Clarification from readers over at Engadget of the judge ruling, to quote:
Update: Looks like we jumped the gun and got the story a little wrong, but thanks to our readers we’ve discovered that the judge declined to rule on the TRO. Instead she tabled the TRO issue because she was not satisfied that the Northern District of California has jurisdiction to rule on the matter because Geohot hacked the PS3 in New Jersey.
01-11-2011
09:15 PM
nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
we support u geo
01-11-2011
09:18 PM
wtf! the bastards!
01-11-2011
09:18 PM
FUUUUUUUUUUUUUDGE!!!!!!
It's a little too late at this point to change anything though.
01-11-2011
09:18 PM
thats it sony cant do **** they are just posturing and trying to make it look like yeah we will own you so other hackers think twice
01-11-2011
09:19 PM
at this point he should open source his CFW patch!
01-11-2011
09:19 PM
lets all donate enough money so he can get the lawyer that saved OJ
01-11-2011
09:19 PM
That's not good at all
01-11-2011
09:24 PM
Hector Martin and Sven Peter are also listed as defendants
01-11-2011
09:24 PM
The lawer that OJ had is dead!
01-11-2011
09:25 PM
OJ didn't kill him did he?
01-11-2011
09:25 PM
they can't do anything jailbreaking is legal
01-11-2011
09:26 PM
Since the iPhone is jailbroken and the DCMA now sees that this is a legal thing to do so, why can't we jailbreak our PS3s??
01-11-2011
09:26 PM
Damn this is bad! But honestly, Geohot didn't do much to help himself... I mean why didn't they take Dark Alex to court? Oh because no one knows who the f*ck he is! He doesn't go on the national news and say "I hacked sony's sh*t!!", but Geohot does. Dark Alex also doesn't put clear photos of himself on half of his hacks...
I really hope Geohot gets a very sleazy lawyer! But the dude really did not thread with caution.
01-11-2011
09:28 PM
01-11-2011
09:29 PM
Sony can't do sh!t~_~!!!!
01-11-2011
09:29 PM
what else could sony do?
they actually don't have a case. he didn't make any money off machine, you can't copyright numbers, his cfw patch did not allow piracy, he has been pretty vocal about anti-piracy, all his tools he created himself and none are from sony.
sony is just hoping he'll quit messing with the ps3 by doing this. i hope it gives him the fire to release all his source codes and maybe give another dev the secret to easy backups.
01-11-2011
09:29 PM
oj is in prison also
goon_510 "jailbreaking" is just a term that is used to mean hack and hacking systems and reverse engineering systems is illegal under the dmca the only reason the dongle manufactuers chose the name jailbreak is because of the recent provisions provided to the iphone
although if this case goes any where they will have very strong fair use arguments as all three defendants are anti piracy and have publically stated there viewpoint on the matter
sony can eat a dick imo
01-11-2011
09:29 PM
Bring back Dark Alex , PHUCK GEOHOT
01-11-2011
09:29 PM
I just read some of that crap and it said HIS CFW enables COPIED GAMES to be played. His code don't enable copied games just homebrew, the code had to be modified by someone else to play copied games..
I say everyone sends there ps3 retail box full of tissue to their front door...
01-11-2011
09:33 PM
I skimmed through the Motion for TRO. And the word that seems to keep coming up is pirated software. To quote:
group called FAIL0VERFLOW discovered a way to access certain (but not all) levels of the
PS3 System by circumventing the corresponding TPMs. Id. at ¶16; Bricker Decl. at ¶5, Exh.
D. At that point, hackers were given the tools to run unauthorized and pirated software on
the PS3 System.
I know that is a bit messy, but read the part where it saids to run pirated software.
Didn't fail overflow say that they DIDN'T support piracy? Also it saids that
Already, pirated video games are being packaged and
distributed with these circumvention devices.
Where is this happening? And besides, geohot made a firmware that DIDN't allow piracy. (He even said it in the info before you install his firmware that he doesn't like piracy.)
I'm probably just say gibberish, but come on sony, even if you win, you still lose. The root key is pretty much everywhere now. This won't change a thing.
Sorry for the long rant their. I just think it's stupid that they are doing this.
01-11-2011
09:33 PM
Everybody knew that would happen, soon or later...
01-11-2011
09:39 PM
This is nothing to be concerned about. It's not even official. Who's the judge ordering this? I call BS. :thefinger: Sony!
wake me up when there's something exciting....
01-11-2011
09:40 PM
actually since some games could be signed and booted, sony can claim his cfw allowed pirated games.
Thanks for reporting this news, this case could be a big deal (like the iphone jailbreaking case) on consumer vs corporation.
P.S anyone know what the deal is with the lawsuits against sony for their removal of features?
01-11-2011
09:41 PM
Well even if they have no case court fees and hiring a lawyer cost money so $ony wants them to feel the burn as well..
01-11-2011
09:42 PM
"
The other Key is held by SCEA; it is not distributed and cannot be located anywhere in the PS3
System’s code or hardware, or the code of any authorized video game. Id. The PS3 System
will not execute a file unless that file contains an authentic digital signature. Id.
Unauthorized or unlicensed video game discs (such as those burned from genuine game
discs) do not have an authorized signature code. Id. at ¶11. Accordingly, a normally functioning
PS3 System will not run those pirated video games.
"
Look at that piece by piece. They say the key is held by SCEA and can't be obtained from the console. Well we all know that's wrong and they ****ed that up royal.
Since we have their key and are using it to sign files those files are considered to be authentic.
The checks and balances are still in place in GEO's firmware. He enabled a way for us to sign our own files with Sony's key. A key they did not protect properly. They say a normally functioning PS3 can't run a pirated game. Who defines normally functioning? If anything the fact features which did function such as OtherOS were removed by Sony and re-enabled by hackers make the system function properly again.
01-11-2011
09:43 PM
$ony servers will be F-ed in a couple of hours knowing that places like 4chan exists and probably already have begun their onslaught. I am not one for piracy but I think I'll go and get my eye patch and my one legged parrot named "Lucky "
I hope they ($ony) get skinned alive ARRRRRRRRRR
:thefinger: For lulz sake....knock this sh*t off $ony
They have just ruined my evening
01-11-2011
09:45 PM
I think Sony knows there screwed and the only way to stop more damage to the SCEA organization is and was to sue Geohot and failoverflow. But, the damage is done, and I don't think they can repair the damage done by FW updates anymore. Has now the PS3 is open source. Correct me if I'm wrong. It's like they been baiting Geohot since December and now this week they've been busy getting a case against him and followers. I guess ppl have nothing to do at Sony Corp all day but read forums about what going on in the PS3 hacking scene. LOL. Lame azz Sony employee. Why don't ya'll focus on the future of release of the PS4.
01-11-2011
09:46 PM
bad news for GEO and for the FLO but trully they deserve it because they wouldent support piracy and we hell suport it long live BM
01-11-2011
09:46 PM
poor geohot... he knew from the begining... sony will going after him,he joke with the PS3 security AND with sony...now make sense why he doesn´t want mirror his jailbreak...
****, if he open a paypal account, i will give to him 1500 dollars( 2000 reais +or-) or, I WILL TRY
, a lot of people in brazil import from the europe the amazebreak or the PSjailbreak, and the famous"brazil price" make we pay + or- 200 DOLLARS, YEAH, YOU READ THIS, a new game here, like call of duty:black ops is 250 reais, considering the dollar here(1,68), is 180 dollars( this isn´t the price, is more expensive, but, whatever...) and the PS3( official price) is 2000 REAIS... IMAGINE THIS PRICE IN DOLLARS! YOU GUYS ARE"IN THE SKY" AND you don´t KNOW, this jailbreak is gonna be VERY VERY USEFUL,but IM ANOTHER COUNTRY LIKE HERE! WAKE UP! LOOK FOR THE WORLD AND TOP ****I´N YOURSELF WITH HACKS! BUY IN EBAY OR AMAZON IF THE GAME IS TO EXPENSIVE
thx geohot... good luck on the court, im can´t help with money, im brazillian
01-11-2011
09:51 PM
Did anyone actually read it this is what sony said to about Fail0verFlow
Indeed, five
days prior to appearing at the Chaos Conference, Bushing echoed a fellow hacker’s
comment anticipating this irreparable harm: “Last chance to sell any Sony stock you may
have.” :thefinger:
01-11-2011
09:55 PM
So is anybody here knowledgable about the legal area? Does Sony have a case here, and what kind of punishment could Geohot be facing?
01-11-2011
09:55 PM
I guess this means they aren't going to interview Geo for a job. Maybe Nintendo or Microsoft will still hire him.
01-11-2011
09:57 PM
Updated first post with a bit more information.
I believe the extortion charges were for when he asked to work for Sony when he released the root key, Sony seemed to have thought that Geohot demand Sony to hire him or else he WOULD release the PS3 key (which was not the case).
01-11-2011
09:59 PM
I always tried to look the other way when they removed otherOs! But serving Geohot and fail0verflow! This Really Pisses me off >:l
01-11-2011
10:01 PM
Same Question Here!!!!
i can understand if we lost the Warranty on our Consols if we jailbreak them, but we Pay for them, so we can do with the PS3 what we want, if we want piss on that, than we piss, we can also destroy it with a knife or a hammer, we can put some stickers on it, or leave it black, or we can modificate it. Sony can't do anything. it's the same procedure like on the iphone. if you buy a car, you can also modificate it as long you don't kill someone you can do what you want, THAT'S called BE FREE!
01-11-2011
10:03 PM
01-11-2011
10:04 PM
this is so bs it's fully legal to jailbreak a system and geohot did patch lv2 so that backups couldn't run ..........good luck geo
01-11-2011
10:04 PM
http://www.hamptonct.com/images/product/1568.jpg ur gona need it geohot
01-11-2011
10:08 PM
if you now your Human Rights, you don't have to be afraid. All this is to spread fear
!
Resist the New World Order!
01-11-2011
10:10 PM
lol scene never changes.
01-11-2011
10:10 PM
If Apple couldn't do a thing, then I doubt Sony will be able to, but then again, the law seems to take a liking towards Sony, simply because they are a big corporation, with many suits that have investments and stocks at stake, the same goes for Apple but the difference between Apple and Sony is that Apple know how to market and sell their products to make a profit, the only reason they haven't "owned" Geohot is because they've made so much god damn profit off the iPhone, iPad, iPod etc. that frankly I think they couldn't really care about whether it's Jailbroken or not anymore. Same with consoles such as the Wii and 360, the games and the consoles themselves for those particular platforms for example have performed and sold a, pardon my language, **** load more than Sony, in fairness, I can understand where Sony is coming from to, they've only just managed to catch up with Nintendo and Microsoft in terms of revenue and profit and suddenly the threat of "pirated games" (aka low profits) has arisen.
In all honesty, Geohot had it coming, I agree with comments about how Dark_Alex handled himself, he never really revealed himself unlike Geohot, who seems to do an interview with the BBC every time he does something with or to the PS3. He let his ego and the thirst for fame get the better of him.
As for Fail0verflow, I feel Sony should be thanking them, it will make them make their next system a lot more securer and maybe even get them to invest good money in security implementation techniques that are not so mundane/orthodox, calling your system the "most secure system in the world" (or words/phrases to that effect) and implementing pathetic elements such as a random number not being random begs one to question Sony on the very basic principles of security and in this case, definition of words. The word "random" means a number should BE "random" and not a consistent number (the number 4 if I recall correctly was used all the time) it also means that if you are so ignorantly leaving the door open by making such a silly mistake and entrusting hope in the myth that the console is so secure that "hackers" will never find out that the random number is not random (I am using the random number mistake as an example) because an IBM security engineer (aka Kanna Shimizu) has created the now not-so-secure PS3 architecture, is just begging to get your console "hacked". So in some respects, Sony had it coming to, just like Geohot has had now, and to delve even further, Sony is very similar to Geohot, they let their ego get the better of them, thinking they are a big corporation with masses of power at their disposal has led to what we know today as the "PS3 Hack Scene".
01-11-2011
10:15 PM
This is a pretty lame response on Sony's part.
1. The doors are already open on this.
2. Nothing can be gained by suing either party.
3. By doing this their just asking for the community to get pissed off and respond in a pretty negative manner. Up until now the anti-piracy stance has been pretty strong. I'm not sure it will be after this.
This maybe a good thing in a way. Maybe EFF will get envolved?
This stops nothing, and only makes Sony look like an even bigger dick.:thefinger:
01-11-2011
10:19 PM
How long before someone peppers all the torrent sites with every CFW and ps3 util there is?
01-11-2011
10:20 PM
Wow this is awful!!....If anyone should be sued its Sony!....Sony has TAKEN several things from us. All Geo was doing is giving it all back. I hope this won't worry people into stopping what they are doing just because of this. I'm wondering how they even found out who he was and where he lived....that's the main thing I'd want to know. I mean seriously. But ya it's beyond lame, it's wrong. They have the right to TAKE from us...then Sue the person trying to give us it all back?...Ya I find it very wrong of them to do this.
01-11-2011
10:23 PM
wow ur fukin stupid like no 1 knows wag jailbreakin is. im just sayin if the iphone jailbreak is legal so will the ps3s b any different they both use firmware and wen u buy it the firmware is yours wen its inyour home so sony aint got **** on geohot
01-11-2011
10:23 PM
Sony needs to realize that people have the right to do what ever they want with there ****.
i pray to god that our main men who made jailbreaking the ps3 get out of this bull**** charge.
in my opinion sony is just killing their future company if all they do is abuse us with threats...
hell, I'm a long time fan of Sony but as of lately they are making a bad name for themselves and just making me pissed
F U SONY
p.s. Sony why dont you just come after everyone of us since we honestly are taking part of all that is ps3 scene
i say we all go support geo and fail0verflow at their court hearing.
01-11-2011
10:26 PM
@supa_sick:
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01-11-2011
10:35 PM
coming from the summons
"Through the
Internet, Defendants are distributing software, tools and instructions (collectively,
“Circumvention Devices”) that circumvent the TPMs in the PS3 System and facilitate the
counterfeiting of video games. Already, pirated video games are being packaged and
distributed with these circumvention devices."
Really, if they did any research at all they would see various statements about neither group/individual condoning piracy. if this is Sony's whole case.. it's going to be dismissed, the only thing they might get is a "computer hacker" title which they rightfully have and maybe a fine.
Furthermore, devices... what devices has either group/individual released? i see only software and a sole key release nothing hardware.
"Further, upon information and believe, in connection with his
unlawful conduct, Hotz has utilized an account via PayPal, a company located in San Jose,
California, and therefore derives a financial benefit through his unlawful conduct in this
district. Bricker Decl. at ¶31, Exh. DD. Mr. Hotz is also unlawfully demonstrating and
distributing a circumvention device or component thereof through YouTube, a widely used
and interactive website located in Mountain View, California.
Where are they getting this information... all of it false. No where does either team ask for or even give link to a donation link. The part about youtube makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever.
"Indeed, the Defendants’ enabling of software piracy through their activities over the
last several days has been widely reported. Yesterday, for example, an article trumpeted
that “PS3 Software Piracy Begins as First Game is Played on an Unmodded Playstation 3.”
Bricker Decl. at ¶2, Exh. A. The article proceeds to explain:
That didn’t take long, did it? The rootkey crack that was
uncovered by Geohot [i.e., Defendant George Hotz] and other
modders has the door wide open for rampant PlayStation 3
piracy, and the first pirated game on an unmodded PS3 has been
done."
someone link me this article becuase i would love to read it.
"Having considered all the papers and arguments, the Court finds that SCEA has
shown a likelihood of success on the merits of its claims for violation of the DMCA and
CFAA, and that it will suffer irreparable harm unless Defendant Hotz’s violations are
enjoined. The Court also finds that a Temporary Restraining Order and Order of
Impoundment are necessary to prevent immediate and irreparable injury to SCEA before
the hearing on the Order to Show Cause regarding the preliminary injunction can take
place, and to preserve the status quo."
Isn't the key already public and the damage done, they are going to get no where with this case.
01-11-2011
10:37 PM
What BS lawsuit. Sony can try their best, but they won't be able to do **** about it. I wish someone could teach me how it all works, as I am general programmer for a few languages, C++, C#, HTML, PHP, JavaScript, VB, etc. I'm too young for Sony to do anything to me, what would they do, take a fourteen year old like me to court? If kids keep getting smarter and learn how to program at early ages and hack, under law, nothing can be done. Fony can go piss off, they should be happy that Geohot and Fail0verflow are against piracy and have backup capability disabled. I think that it is a good thing that Geohot and them didn't lay low, Fony could've tracked them down anyway, and thanks to them not laying low, they can have widespread support from the people that they do (hack) things for.
01-11-2011
10:38 PM
qwed88 - 01-11-2011 10:15 PM
This is a pretty lame response on Sony's part.
1. The doors are already open on this.
2. Nothing can be gained by suing either party.
3. By doing this their just asking for the community to get pissed off and respond in a pretty negative manner. Up until now the anti-piracy stance has been pretty strong. I'm not sure it will be after this.
This maybe a good thing in a way. Maybe EFF will get envolved?
This stops nothing, and only makes Sony look like an even bigger dick.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree 100%. Sony got so high of the PS2 crack-pipe that they think that they have the power to make false claims against people and bring them to court. I own the console and I get to run whatever code I want on it who are you to say no, is it affecting your sales negitivily? No, it's raising them. Are you guys jusy angry that you didn't think of it first and we actually took matters into our own hands or are you just bullying develepers because they are better than yours and you can't get your act together? Go ahead and sue (censor) me too, that's right you can't because I have rights and it may be shocking to you but unlike 4Chan your NOT above the law and and you have to play be the same rules as everyone else. I like you guys but you forget that you make the consoles for us, we don't buy it for you.
01-11-2011
10:45 PM
You know, the more that I think, maybe this is just a ploy to keep them busy while Fony tries to make some way to block it all.
01-11-2011
10:47 PM
sony knows well how to spread fear!
People you need really know your Human Rights, Sony has nothing in Hands to go for those Smart Guys.
1. Console is yours, becose you pay for it. what you do with it is in your hands.
2. What’s with the People using ModChip Dongles since years, that can be found on the Internet?
3. What’s with the People envolved in the PS3 Scene, would the take all to court?
4. it’s the same procedure like on the iPhone shizzzzle.
We are not afraid Sony!
cheers from Switzerland, keep up tha Fantastic Work,
01-11-2011
10:51 PM
This is like shutting the door after the horse has bolted
01-11-2011
10:51 PM
They are just grasping for straws, because they have no other options at this time... I'm sure the hardware is being revised right now. Meanwhile they need to save face with devs and shareholders. Imagine if the PS3 is really failed, and game companies stop producing for it... Then everyone loses. Not just Sony.
Yes we can code and sign our own homebrew apps now... but at what cost...?
I think I've just been scared straight!!!!
Maybe not... ^_^
01-11-2011
10:57 PM
glad I haven't updated to 3.55 I see things slowing down quite a bit. We'll see.
01-11-2011
10:58 PM
Xbox 360 been hacked almost since it came out and its still to this day collecting at ah least ah Billion dollars in revenue err year so wtf why sony acting like ah ex girlfriend n **** just let it go half the world isent gonna hack their ps3 n e way
01-11-2011
10:59 PM
This is a load of crap Geo new that some day this would happen he was asked about it on cnn and i remember he replied something like yes im a little worried but i own the console there for i can do what i wish to it. and another thing i was reading an article on how game sales work and it was some thing ridiculous like game dev gets $3 a publisher gets $12 and a game store will charge from $40 to $100 and if u think about it a game will sell by so many million copies out to stores around the world. im not condoning piracy i just found it interesting in regards to sony there the ones that gave ps jailbreak the tools to hack there console in the first place and they are just playing game to make devs pub think there doing something about it and trying to earn some extra cash in the process sorry if theres any mistakes made i have to run but i just wanted to voice my opinion the sony are a$$ hols and should probably hire these guys for there next system not sue them.
01-11-2011
11:00 PM
It's really sad that this is happening. Another perfect example of brilliance being stifled by morons because of money.
If you buy a PC from HP, does HP limit you as to which apps you can run, or as to what settings you can change? No, because it's a PC.
Now, the PS3 was originally touted as a "Next-Gen PC/Gaming System", with the OtherOS option being a HUGE selling point. But when Sony realized that the rules for PC's were different than the rules for a gaming system, they stole our OtherOS from us without warning. Thus, the PS3 changed from a PC/Gaming System to only a Gaming System. That makes it much easier for them to do the exact things they're doing now. If the PS3 had been hacked before OtherOS had been stolen from us, there wouldn't have been much that Sony could do, since it was a PC. Smart move, Sony. Too bad that you're too stupid to realize that talent should be allowed to flourish, not stifled and contained.
Sorry for the rant, but maybe, just maybe, some of it will seep through Sony's thick skulls!
01-11-2011
11:01 PM
When our PS3 gets YLOD, Sony pretend that it never exists or brush it off as an isolated incident. No acknowledgement. Nothing. They are probably told that acknowledgement is an admission of guilt. But since we can't take class action against Sony, we keep on getting YLOD even for their Slim console.
But when their masterkey get published or some jailbreak device appears, suddenly their legal team goes all out and shoot anything that moves. Scary. Can't these people sit down and devote some resources for the YLOD victims.
What happened to the people that produced CFW for PSP, did the same thing happen to them, were they slapped with lawsuit or fade into oblivion after Sony threaten legal action? What about Wii, can anyone recall if nintendo do anything against the same bunch of hackers. What about M$, did they sue anyone for breaking the DVD drive security or overriding the console's security? Did Sony achieve something that M$ and Nintendo is unable to do?
01-11-2011
11:01 PM
01-11-2011
11:05 PM
01-11-2011
11:08 PM
WTF???
Man, homebrew IS NOT piracy, sony will lose
01-11-2011
11:08 PM
The bit that pisses me off is that he has to surrender all his electronics with 10 days.. or did I read it incorrectly?
01-11-2011
11:08 PM
You know what this lawsuit proves, it proves that Sony is a whore. Microsoft banned people because of using backup\pirated games, which is the right thing to do. (Except for people that legitimately backup games) They didn't sue people for hacks to gain money from the lawsuits. (Bill Gates would've given it away anyway) Nintendo... well... they're completely mellow, they don't ban people, they don't do really anything, except they do sometimes try to stop hackers by using updated firmware, but you can still get online with the older firmware... My point is, Microsoft and Nintendo didn't serve lawsuits, they didn't try to take down anyone who tried to hack their systems, Sony is a money whore. It's pathetic too, they have so much money in TVs, their website, computers, game consoles, and such that it's insane that they want even more money. Greedy *******s.
01-11-2011
11:21 PM
01-11-2011
11:26 PM
i already sent an e-mail to EFF. wanna take our Other OS, then prosecute the guys who're trying to give it back? i bought the damn ps3, payed it with my hard-earned money, and I'll be darned if i let you **** with it again under my watch. if i sold a pie to someone, that doesn't entitle me to come jab him in the stomach later to retrieve the digesting food just because he ate it with a fork instead of a spoon. it's not like the customer was gonna replicate the pie and sell it off as his own. it's just that the A-holes who sold him the pie pulled back all the forks they use to sell it with, because the a-holes felt threatened by the powers that the fork bestowed upon the pie.
cutting the pie story short, Sony is that bully that got sad when the wimp he stole a toy from stole it back, a toy that was ours to begin with, from the moment we took that ps3 with us home. so screw you Sony. stop pointing a finger at us "pirates", because you hacked the "system" just as much as we hacked yours.
01-11-2011
11:33 PM
As a long time supporter of Sony I'm starting to see why just about everyone hates them! The damage is done, best they can do is try to make an example of them! I have a feeling the European community will retaliate hard!
01-11-2011
11:37 PM
if sony didnt want $200 to fix my broken ps3 laser that lasted a yr and a half then i wouldnt need to backup my games and jailbreak, sony is just a greedy corporation that cares more about profit then there customers. Best wishes guys, i hope sony loses horribly!
01-11-2011
11:42 PM
I agree. My damn 60gb (that I'm still paying for) got the ylod again about a month ago after I fixed it myself about a year ago. I have a bad feeling it's the bd drive this time. Worse thing is my mint black label copy of Chrono Cross is in there. I've been laying for a while but this is bs from Sony!
01-11-2011
11:45 PM
Geohot may be screwed on this but have a look at page 16, footnote 7.
We are down stream. Using geohot's jailbreak for Playing backups of your own games is completely legal.
01-11-2011
11:46 PM
Uh, why Geohot? As far as I know he didn't do anything aside from provoke Sony to remove Linux. I could be wrong but I think all he did was post a key he got from using fail0verflow's algorithm. What exactly did he do to be named in the lawsuit?
01-11-2011
11:49 PM
Sony can Kiss my green ass goodbye. geohot never "allowed" piracy. The pirates made piracy out of his work to enable homebrew on the ps3. I dont encourage sony to sue anyone but isnt geohot taking the fall for riku.kh3's work to enable piracy.
01-11-2011
11:51 PM
01-11-2011
11:53 PM
if i was geohot i would be like fuuuckkkk u cuuunnts give me a job or else ill keep hacking ur ****tt simply as that
01-11-2011
11:54 PM
anyone got a mirror for his jailbreak?
01-12-2011
12:00 AM
Read the docs on his site. <-- LOL I crack me up. Who am I kidding?
01-12-2011
12:04 AM
Half the "pirates" don't care about the games. They just like to do the actual hack, run some homebrew and/or emulators. Many people do download games and often don't even play them or play them for 5 minutes but like to have collection. At least thats what the pirates I know do. My PS3 was collecting dust until the jailbreak came out. I backed up the few games I have and have since bought a stack from Amazon on black friday since then. So in my case it actually drove up sales. Good luck Geohot and Team fail0verflow. Maybe the prosecution will make fools of themselves like they did in the Microsoft case.
01-12-2011
12:05 AM
"Confidential Information On Computer"
LoL...every PS3 ever shipped has had confidential information on it, every computer owned by sony has confidential information on it, and every windows PC has confidential information on it. They might as well charge them with having electronics in a computer.
"Intent To Defraud And Obtain Value"
I love this one...here is the definition of defraud: "to deprive of something by deception or fraud" and of fraud: "deceit, trickery"...no deceit was used, no trickery was used, and sony was not deprived of anything. Other than the "obtain value" part of this, they have nothing.
"Knowing Transmission of Code"
This actually isn't a crime...otherwise, Sony would be guilty of it every time they did a system update. There is a similar law against "unauthorized and knowing transmission of code or commands resulting in intentional damage to a protected computer system". They really didn't define "Damage" very well for this, so Sony might have a chance here. I'm not sure how they will justify that adding features is damage, but I am sure their legal team is working on that right now.
"Intentional and Reckless Damage And Loss"
This looks like it was written by a 1st year lawschool dropout without internet access. Intentional damage is the opposite of reckless damage.
"Trafficking in Password"
First, they did not release passwords...they released cryptographic keys, which are treated differently under the law as they are not created by users. Also, the crime "Password Trafficking" has two requirements for it to pass muster:
* The trafficking must affect interstate or foreign commerce
* The computer is used by or for the U. S. Government
Essentially, Sony has created a long list of things that they can't prove, with a few things that are impossible mixed in. The figure that they can get away with anything after they got away with the whole OtherOS thing...and now they are attacking people who have done nothing wrong. Not only that, but Sony has nothing to gain here; the hacks are out. It is like trying to destroy the box that Pandora has already escaped from...if anything, it will only make the scene more dedicated. ...And if they actually did manage to convict, that would only make the whole scene go underground, and every advancement would be related to backups and/or piracy.:musicus:
01-12-2011
12:07 AM
geohot should Hit sony hard, release a CFW with backup ability and release under the name anonymous :thefinger:
01-12-2011
12:07 AM
They messed with hackers once and look what happened they united. Its that time again Sony should've learned I think their about to mess with a lot of the wrong people. I expect well see things get ugly on Sonys end soon.
01-12-2011
12:10 AM
fuk u sony go geohot.... we need u back man none of this sony bullcrap i hate u sony 4 wat u have done to our community of ultimateness
01-12-2011
12:12 AM
i think sony is getting pressure more from software developers than anyone else. i'm sure guys at EA care much more about any hacks than sony do as console sales would probably jump at least 10% if savvy users knew how to jailbreak them.
also logically sony has made decent change on the ps3, it took "coders" nearly 4 1/2 years to break the unit open. honestly most in the scene didn't think it would take that long but it did. they need to accept the fact their console is open and concentrate on ps4 for 2012 !
01-12-2011
12:13 AM
Thanks but this won't work for me. Worked the first time I got ylod since the culprits were the thermal paste and the motherboard. Nothing seems to work this time which Is why I have a feeling it's probably a faulty eject mechanism or a dead laser! Heard the bd drive is a pain in the ass to put back together though else I would just take it apart!
01-12-2011
12:20 AM
Here is what Sony hasn't considered:
Not only did they go after the guy who refused to cater to pirates, but they if they intend to ban people, they should think about a few things first:
I like emulators. Sure, I have a PC, and other consoles, and I can run the emulators on these other systems. Now I run them on my Ps3. You want to BAN me for this? Sure. I'll still play my emulators, just now, I will buy less games, and my PS+ subscription, you can say goodbye to that. Those $5 and $10 PSN purchases? Yeah, no more of those. So, by banning all of us, including those who never had intentions of piracy, you cut off your own foot.
I'm a paying customer until you swing that hammer. Make sure you understand that not all of us want to play backups, in fact, I could care less about them. As soon as I cannot use PSN and online features, I might just have to explore other potential avenues for using the system, which puts backups on the table. I'm not going to pay full price for games that I can't play online.
Think hard Sony. The only thing you've been good at is alienating your own supporters. You've got a big opportunity here to repeat, or change direction. You can see my playlist, and you'll see it's devoid of backups, or backup managers, and only has homebrew. BAN me, I dare you. You're only banning my wallet, not my ability to use my own console.
01-12-2011
12:48 AM
If anything goes wrong to these guys (preety impossible I think, it's preety obvious that the court will just ignore Sony) we should travel at the US and strike for them...
Also I believe that the best thing we can do to make mad Sony if something goes wrong is to make a CFW able to run Backup Managers and use them as much as we can, either if we are with or against piracy. Sony takes too serious some things (actually everything that is attached to Sony, even Sony BMG) in legal wise stuff... Remember that Sony BMG was the first to ban music videos in YouTube and propose that policy, now preety like the same happens in her Computer Entertaintment part but once again it won't stop anyone... Sony can't get that she has only to win from this thing and not lose, the numbers of the drastic increasing sales on the latest 6 months say it all so it's not my opinion.
01-12-2011
01:01 AM
I find this pretty amusing. Sony is not going after them for loss of revenue, nor to send them to jail or anything. So they are not suing him, they are only going after a permanent court order for them to stop their practices. I thought it was amusing. However, it does worry me how this may have an impact on the ps3 hacking scene. I WANT MY HOMEBREW.
01-12-2011
01:06 AM
I'm really starting to think this is just a scare tactic since it seems kinda unlikely sony will win this. I feel like their just making examples win or lose out of geohot and fail0verflow to scare other hackers. Just my two cents im not expert or lawyer but the documents have some things taken really out of context.
01-12-2011
01:13 AM
What is even more brilliant is the publicity the PS3 dev scene is going to get from this action. Nerds and enthusiast were the main lurkers around here, and now, due to seeing it in the news, everyone with a PS3 will know what it is capable of.
Sony has a habit of doing the exact opposite of what they should have done.
01-12-2011
01:23 AM
To people that think that it would be a good idea to strike back and release CFW with backup capabilities, that is the worst thing that could be done in this situation. It will make Sony capable of doing more harm to Geohot, Fail0verflow, and the PS3 homebrew community.
01-12-2011
01:32 AM
lol! I figured there would be a slander suit for the "epic fail" comments, but you can't sue people for pointing out FACTS, only if the "epic fail" were false would they have a case. A TRO is not going to do a lot. Christ, they could continue posting hacks with a new alias or just get others to post on their behalf. Way to waste the courts time Sony.
01-12-2011
01:39 AM
i doubt sony can earn anything from this other then scare everyone .....
i guess its same with apple goes to court with j/b ... and lost.....
im not sure about releasing the keys .....
even the big us couldnt charge anyone with releasing top secert papers
01-12-2011
01:40 AM
Since Sony is taking legal action against the hackers, that means they are endorsing the fact that the hackers have found the correct master keys.
The keys are useless and meaningless to 99.999999% of us. So why are they so hard up? I would be more interested the winning numbers for lottery than master keys.
Can't Sony put their money to better use e.g. repair all our YLOD console for free. Why throw good money after someone who showed the public something they don't know what to do with. The master key is like a knife. You can use it to cut fruits or to stab someone. Can you charge the person who gives you the knife?
btw, what happened to all the law suit Sony took against all the jb suppliers?
01-12-2011
01:53 AM
It's a shame that Sony put's in so much effort in scaring their own customers. Although the PS3 is the best console available by far, I am probably gonna buy the XBOX 720:thefinger: in stead of the PS4. This is just shoplifting your own customers, just like with the removal of OtherOS.
Technologie gone to waste:musicus:
Too bad Sony has broken my fragile gamers heart...
01-12-2011
01:53 AM
Couple things I see here, if this is real and not just a hoax by Geo. For Sony to do this is actually kind of a good idea for them.
#1 It slows the progress of CFW giving time for newer games to make money for them.
#2 Above mentioned slow down of CFW gives them time to find ways of prevention if there are any issuing any updated FW there in.
#3 Shocks the public with news reports again trying further to hender progress in CFW, as well as makes them look good to game dev's.
What they need to understand is, The jailbreak device didn't stop nor did it slow down. The release of any device be it from physical to digital. Is not to be blamed nor is can the release of information be acted upon through the courts. It would be like taking a gun manufacturer to court for the shooting of an individual. Or taking to court Stanley tools for manufacturing the tools needed to break into a warehouse. Bad anology I know, However same circumstance's. So the question is will all this take place? Or will hackers continue to use the tools and keys to keep the dream of full access CFW alive? The true fact of the matter is Sony had no idea who anyone was until they showed thier faces. So those are the people they are going to attack. Even though those people are not the ones who are doing harm as they only realeased information. What other hackers did with it is not thier doing nor thier intent for the tools they released.
Having said all this Sony is the origin or the fault here, Their Dev's released the info for the JB dongle they sent an open invitation to hackers when they took OtherOs away. Which in turn drew attention to themselves. So in reality sony are only trying to slow things down a bit a attack people for their own mishaps. It is almost childish.
01-12-2011
02:13 AM
I think Sony just want to slow down the scene now.
Go Geo!!! We all supporting you!!!
Sony eat you own s#*@ :thefinger:
01-12-2011
02:14 AM
Sony's looking for some good devs. Court then job proposition.
01-12-2011
02:17 AM
Sony..you frickin dumb ass. Why are you throwing gas on the fire? Not very smart. Who runs things over there? Helen Keller?
Sony, hows it going to feel when you have to pay all the defendants legal fee's? Guess Geo's going to get a check from you after all! Ironic & Iconic!
01-12-2011
02:26 AM
Geohots and other hackers REMEMBER ABOUT OTHER OS!!! It is unfair to remove such a great feature! It's funny that Sony has the right to remove features from the ps3 with future updates, BUT WE DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT TO MODIFY OUR OWN CONSOLES THAT WE SPEND HARD CASH ON! Sony! You mess with the bull, you get the horns!!!! The cat and mouse game is over!! This is war!!!!
01-12-2011
02:28 AM
We should start presenting charges against sony by removing other os. A massive movement against sony. Each PS3 one charge. I can count on a free lawyer to do it (for me, its a governmental service). What do you say?
01-12-2011
02:53 AM
^^ yep that's illegal advertising, misleading discription, what more sh*t can we sue Sony for??
01-12-2011
03:10 AM
01-12-2011
03:22 AM
Oh My God Sony, Shame on You! What a crock of absolute sh*t but hey if you wanna waste ya money on a highly public court case that are gonna make you look like the c*nts you really are then go for it! I am not a lawyer but it seems to even the n00bish like myself that you are really clutching at straws with this case. Most of your charges are bogus especially:
* Intent To Defraud And Obtain Value
Right no legal wizz here, but i have not seen anywhere that Geo, fail or anyother dev is looking for money for their work! Lets look at the definition:
de·fraud/diˈfrôd/
Verb: Illegally obtain money from (someone) by deception
Geo and the others have not decepted anyone, they made it clear as day that they done this to bring back OtherOS and to allow homebrew on the PS3. They have done exactly what they set to do.
* Intentional and Reckless Damage And Loss
Intentional and Reckless Damage And Loss... what to their own Playstations.. WTF!! Anyone who wishes to also use the MFW/CFW out there do at their own RISK! Sony you may own the legal rights of PS3, however when we all paid our money to make you a hella lot richer. We then got the right to dick around with OUR consoles as much as we like.
* Intent to Extort
Lets go back to the dictionary:
ex·tort/ikˈstôrt/
Verb: Obtain (something) by force, threats, or other unfair means.
WTF is this one doing here!? No-one forced, threatened or used any other unfair methods at all PERIOD! No-one has asked for f*ck all either. Unless Geo and Fail went round to all the "sceners" or whatever they are called and put a gun to their head and said "Yooo'z ******, Uze My Custom's Homie or Ass, Cap, In! Youz get the picture"
I am unsure about the other list of charges but they seem bollox aswell. People were wondering what Sony were going to do next and it seems to me they have EPIC FAILURE just round the corner again. Once this has happened, I think next Fony should FIRE THEIR LAWYERS!
01-12-2011
03:28 AM
This is so ****ing retarded I do not know where to begin.
01-12-2011
03:29 AM
01-12-2011
03:33 AM
LOL I hope Geohot etc... are sensible enough to get a laywer, as any half decent lawyer would see the flaw's in sony's case, and get the case laughed out of court. So long as it can be proven no "official" software was stolen or used, by those being hit with this court case. There is no proof that any of them actually did anything illegal. Posting a root key worked out by using skills these guys clearly have, its not cause for legal action.
The fact remains, that geohots fw doesnt directly allow the play of backups or illegally obtained games. so no case there. And as for the rest of the case... LMFAO. sony I hope your paying a lot of money for this case, hopefully it will cost you enough to make you realise its not fair to bully the little guy. And that OtherOS should of remained on the console. After all it was your own actions that have led to this.
01-12-2011
03:39 AM
LMAO Just reading the complaints.pdf... Favorite so far... Page 3 - Article 15 (a) .. "Hotz has purposely availed himself with the benefits of this district by doing business with Paypal, Inc .."
So sony are saying that because he has a paypal account, in their eyes they believe he is obtaining value for a jailbreak/master key that he released PUBLICALLY and with absolute no charge on his website. I wanna be there when his comes up in court:
Judge: "So Mr. Hotz, you have paypal? why? accourding to the prosicution its because you have being obtaining value for your mad hacking skills. What do you have to say in your defense"
Geo: "Ermmmmmmm... ebay?"
01-12-2011
03:41 AM
01-12-2011
03:56 AM
Someone needs to release a CFW with a backup manager and a readme with a line something like this...
"This release has been modified to avoid the pitfalls that brought charges against GeoHot. First, all authentication has been removed, as I do not want to get in trouble for distributing secret keys that everyone already knows. Second, I have enabled backup manager support and the ability to install pirated PSN games...as we all know that Sony considers any CFW without any piracy potential to be illegal.
01-12-2011
03:57 AM
I think we are forgetting stuff like modifying selfs,LV1 etc,SDK 3.50 etc etc are all in some form prohibited.
I mean any SDK leaked is piracy for a start and any code Geohot changed or adapted for his own ends from an original COPYRIGHTED firmware IS PIRACY/COPYRIGHT THEFT/FRAUD.
Alot of you are still taking the term "Jailbreak" to mean something,its just a term for...hacked/butt raped/exploited etc,.etc,
I dont know where you live but butt rape is still illegal here!
01-12-2011
04:10 AM
01-12-2011
04:20 AM
Fact #1.) fail0verflow have enabled the ability of using Linux on the PS3, the feature that Sony took from us.
Fact #2.) GeoHot did in fact create a custom firmware, but he disabled the ability to run backups, thus eliminating the ability to run pirate games, he did Sony's job for them, they should be thanking him.
01-12-2011
04:22 AM
Sony is trying to save face. Too little too late though.
I really have no interest in emulators, homebrew games, or piracy on the PS3. I want Ubuntu on it though. This lawsuit by Sony is really a dick move on their part.
01-12-2011
04:33 AM
We should seriously think of a unification (put the message on every ps3 sites). I saw here and there little actions, blogs but no serious core. I don't know, mass mailing or something elsen, anything but something big. Sony got to understand that we are no ****ing credit cards. I pay my ps3 600 E, backward...1 years after she died, they hold her 1/2 month and the year after she yloded. I repaired her for the 3 time... There politic is really ****ed up, there psn is ****ed up and from the past 2-3 years, sony's gaming departement seems to be ruled by a blind, deaf and greedy bastard.
Their updates are only for blocking this or that or giving us the possibility to use netflix...Come on, who gives a ****? Oh yeah, they also fixed the date and time on the upper right with no possibility to simply turn it off...I got a pc and it's a better multimedia center than a ps3 that slowly dies when she's turned on and I also have a watch.They do nothing for improving game experience, making faster loadings or even better psn games.
01-12-2011
04:38 AM
The only time I seen unification work was when they tried to cancel the TV show Jericho the first time. That was Epic.
01-12-2011
04:43 AM
I can't really make much sense of those documents as im no lawer but it looks like hes in court 9 am PMT today
01-12-2011
04:48 AM
2010 was a great year for micro$oft millions sales with kinect great success of windows 7 and $ony only released a wireless dildo with a light on top along with the old eye toy ****. pspGO also is an epic fail for hor($o)ny.
so who is a looser in any way?
why micro$oft or appl3 dont buther with homebrew and horsny does?
01-12-2011
04:56 AM
The real issue is far simpler and more astonishing than many of you realise: Sony is absolutely terrified that it will lose its control over the PS3 platform. You need to look at Sony's business model in order to realise what this is all about. Software piracy is a mere gnat on the buttocks of a yak, compared to having their private key published to the world. Some have mentioned the private key as being equivalent to Sony's "crown ***els" (that's j.e.w.e.l.s) - and believe me, such a description is no exaggeration.
In case you do not know, every PS3 developer has to pay Sony a nice little fee for every game that they sell on the PS3. This makes Sony a rather large amount of money - in fact, it's the whole reason why Sony sold their consoles at so much of a loss (often many hundreds of euros/dollars per console) - because they made the money back through these fees. That isn't the case anymore, but I mentioned it because it shows what confidence Sony had in its ability to capitalise on its position of PS3 gatekeeper. Sony knew that it held the keys to the kingdom and that it - and only it - had the ability to sign software to run on the PS3. Sony charged developers handsomely for this, for they alone controlled the platform - Sony was effectively the pimp, and the developers were the prostitutes. Sony could not only demand a share of the developers' income, they could also control what was published on their platform - and what was not. If a developer came up with something that Sony felt interfered with something it was selling, or perhaps had negative implications for its media arm, it could simply refuse to sign the app - and deny access to the PS3 platform as it wished.
All that has now changed.
By publishing the root key, Geohot has threatened Sony's entire business model. This legal action is not just posturing - it's sheer desperation. To those who think that Sony will be laughed out of court, I can assure you that you do not know the game that is being played here. You should also be aware that Sony can change the charges at any time, or add new ones. It would also be error to assume that a judge will see things in the same light as the average PS3 owner. Failing all else, Sony could easily prolong and jerk the case around until Geohot is hundreds of thousands of dollars in hock to his defence lawyer - and when he's been burned enough, Sony could just drop the suit and walk away. The biggest danger for Geohot is that Sony has a keen interest in making an example of him: Being on the right side of the law does not necessarily mean you will win a court case - especially when you have attracted the ire of someone with a lot of money, power, legal resources ... and a HELL of a lot to lose.
Sony's worst nightmare, you see, is seeing developers like EA and SquareSoft saying "Well, the PS3 is an open platform now. We see no need to pay you a fee anymore, just as nobody pays Microsoft a fee to write an app or game for Windows." That seriously reduces Sony's position of owner and gatekeeper of the platform, to that of a mere box-shifter. Worse, if Sony then tried to stop devs from releasing their own self-signed games with future firmware updates, Sony could very well get sued by said devs for restraint of trade. Suffice it to say that every PS3 developer is watching this situation with interest.
In my (unprofessional) legal opinion, Sony may very well be able to make the charge of reckless damage and loss stick to Geohot - though I do not think they stand much of a chance with the other charges - or, indeed, with the fail0verflow team - who took a far more measured, thoughtful and academic approach. This may well be their saving grace - similar security research conducted against the collective interests of the banking industry, which is far larger than Sony (I'm thinking of the Chip and PIN security vulnerabilities recently revealed by a Cambridge University researcher) has been protected and defended.
It's all getting very interesting - but of Sony, I will say this: You had this coming. You've treated too many people like doormats in the past, and the chickens are finally coming home to roost.
01-12-2011
05:01 AM
How do you delete comments?
01-12-2011
05:02 AM
01-12-2011
05:14 AM
I hope Geohot gets away with this! Its ok for Sony to sell you something....ps3 with linux, then take it away from us! I am glad Geohot realesed the root key!
Sony taking legal action just means that there is no way back for them now and they know it! Sony messed with Hackers and upset there own fan base! I will never buy anything from Sony again! They are Indian givers....screw you Sony I hope you loose all your money on the PS3 though piracy!
:thefinger:
01-12-2011
05:30 AM
i hope geohot and fail0verflow win they work they @$$ of for the community(the users) rooting for u guys
01-12-2011
06:05 AM
Can't imagine what will happen if $ony lose this action against our guys? We have to support'em...
01-12-2011
06:10 AM
well with normal logic and reason geohot would win but money can twist logic
01-12-2011
06:37 AM
Yesterday I learned that the PS3 is sending information over the internet about programs/games I run on my PS3. Even if I don't connect to PSN but just use the crappy browser. This seems to me as spyware. Is it legal adding this kind of spyware to the OS without warning the customers about it? I don't think so...
So the jailbreak might be useful to remove the unwanted spyware from Sony and I think I have the right to do so.
01-12-2011
06:46 AM
Hate to tell you dude but its all there in the T&C, Just like any thing in life its in the small print!
01-12-2011
06:54 AM
Dont worry guys. Sony is just trying to scare the **** out of those hackers. We have keys already, so we have what we need. If geohot or failoverflow will stop their *work* others will continue. I will continue then....
01-12-2011
07:13 AM
Well as geohot has said dont be scammed by ppl to be claiming to be raising funds for his defence.
tbh I think there probably would be an lawyer somewhere who would most likely offer their services for free. Just imagine the press coverage of this if it does go ahead, any lawyer would love to get all that global free advertising!
$ony really are now just grasping at thin air, unless $ony gets a judge to change the laws before a trial, they have no real case. $ony still think all sold consoles are still theirs, but no we all bought them and they are our property and we can do whatever we want with them, be it homebrew or piracy.
So was dressed provocatively and was almost completely naked. :P
Hang on anyone else read the Proposed order, they claim geohot of marketing and advertising, he published items online but he's not made a single cent out of this!
Also trying to get him for advertising jailbreak dongles, again he hasnt does that!
Claiming to be a pirate, again he did this for homebrew and is against piracy!
Hmm so when will anon's ddos begin on www.kilpatricktownsend.com :D
01-12-2011
07:16 AM
I bet Geohot is up to his ears in job offers by now. :aetsch:
01-12-2011
07:20 AM
it's the end of all
01-12-2011
07:25 AM
every end is a new beginning.
************* [ - Post Merged - ] *************
01-12-2011
07:41 AM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-12171423
01-12-2011
08:05 AM
You guys are hilarious. Sure, there might be legal precedence for a person to modify his/her purchased hardware to "free" it from the the "jail" of it's hampered potential (while conveniently overlooking any conflict with the device's intended purpose), but it becomes a point of ridicule when the mass of "activists" clamoring for their "rights" (to homebrew or whatnot) rely on a very select few to do this "act of freedom" for them. I never thought that the law of which possession is proverbially 9/10 part of, allows such transference of rights ownership glibly.
Sony is plainly doing the practical thing, killing the snake by cutting its head off. Sure, the scene may be like the immortal hydra and can sprout new heads and it does have a lot of smart heads still on it but they got one of the heads they want in their crosshairs, the one that holds much if not all the information currently possessed on the hacker side; information which can be used now and in the design of their future consoles. So, ironically, geohot may potentially end up "working" for Sony especially if a court injunction asks simply for a full divulging of what has been and what can be done to Ps3. What more, the current crop of hackers may move on to more interesting and lower-risk projects and this community mainly comprised of (I think) self-serving lurker pirates will be left bereft waiting for another "savior" to hear their:
1. pleas ("someone please compile this for me", "I need backup manager!") <- this begs the obvious: if you want to "jailbreak" put your money where your mouth is and do everything yourself, as that is what "jailbreaking" is all about. Having others do any part of it for you is probably criminal.
2. sub-juvenile statements ("Take this Sony :thefinger:", "Sony is stupid") <- which is as lame as it gets seeing that these losers delude themselves to think that they won something over Sony through someone else's work. You guys do know how hypocritical it is to hate the company you bought stuff you WANT to use from and want Sony to keep making future iterations of in the future for you to keep buying to use, right?
3. faux adulation ("Great job! CFW is just around the corner! I want backup manager!") I'm not talking about those who REALLY get it, whose praise for the work being done is genuine since it comes from a technical point of view but rather I'm talking about those people that praise with a forked tongue to wheedle for what they want but trash the talent when the going gets tough (a brief look at the comments section yields prime examples of this). I'd like to think the smart people behind the different projects in the community are above empty flattery but I guess even such flattery can get to anyone's head if the "worshipers" are vapid enough. Geohot (and the others) probably wouldn't be in such a mess if he didn't allow himself to be egged on. Sure he might have let his ego loose but a lot of you fanned the flames and dropped him in it.
4. puny cries of "disenfranchisement" ("they took OtherOS away from us". "I want the 4 usb ports!") <- For those who ACTUALLY lost OtherOS in their consoles, your cries are not puny at all and should keep demanding for its return. For those who've never had OtherOS, who've never even used OtherOS much less know how to use this or any other Linux distribution should STFU about OOS if you're still *****ing about it. You paid less for the console you bought reflecting the loss of this and other capabilities and face it, you knew that when you bought it. It's probably WHY you bought it in the first place. One only has to read such as this to remind oneself that most people can't make heads or tails of Linux and were glad to pay less to adopt the PS3 in exchange for a "useless" feature. I didn't see the crush of early adopters when Sony released the PS3 for $$$ a pop, in fact, consumer opinions in the early days bemoaned the PS3 as being too expensive loaded with features and new technology no one really wanted to pay for adopting (see DVD vs. Blu-ray). Sony started slashing prices to get people to buy and it could only do so by taking away some costly features and investing in better manufacturing processes to trim down costs. Every console comes at a loss no matter how many Sony sells in the end. Do the math. So stop using the rallying cry that is legitimately owned by those who really lost OtherOS as your own. If you all want it that bad, there are a LOT of Fat PS3s floating around waiting to be purchased last time I checked (and I just checked 5 minutes ago). If you are one those people who bought a slim thinking it had all the bells and whistles the fat ps3 had, I wonder why you didn't cart it back for a refund to buy what you really want? Your answers might be enlightening.
5. indignant consumerism ("I bought my PS3. I have the right to do what I please with it", "I'm a consumer. You're shooting yourself in the foot stupid Sony! That's it, I'm buying an Xbox 720!", "Now you've done it Sony, the hackers will get you!") <- Consumerism is a fine thing. Sony and other companies should inform the consumer public that they were taking away features from products when they choose to do so and they did, right? The only people who actually lost here are those who owned OtherOS capable consoles. All the consoles that came after that explicitly displayed that they didn't have the lost features on them. So indignant consumers that never lost anything (see item # 4) should learn another big word: Sophistry. And while you all are at it, siccing the hackers at Sony for your perceived losses is plain sad. Oh yeah, since this particular group is all fired up about rights, what're your thoughts about the white elephant in the room called piracy? Surely, publishers and console makers have rights too, right?
Face it, 4+ years of virtually nothing without the hard work of too few people; work which I still think wouldn't have happened if the JB exploit was never released to the public. I really don't buy into the "we only hacked the PS3 because they took away Linux" **** that implies the PS3 could have fallen anytime had the hackers wished it. Please. If GH and the rest move on, what will the roiling masses of Sony-hating-but-want-everything "homebrew lovers" do? Squat.
Lastly, a lot of you are thinking small. They're not going after GH and the rest merely for what was done to the PS3. It's obvious the PS3 is a lost cause. They're after the precedent of litigation to whip future hackers' with should "assaults" to future products ensue. It will not take any mean amount of litigation to make some the charges stick and money need not even come into the equation. The breaking of the PS3 for whatever reasons there were, ENABLED piracy and no matter how vociferous the protestations from GH and the other hackers may be, they in all likelihood left things open as open sourced projects are wont to for others to do with their work for whatever benefits that may be accrued. They most likely didn't DISABLE anything that might lead to piracy. One look at it and it's obvious the CFW related work can be easily extended to allow for such. Had they (circumventors) actively worked to block piracy in their releases, then this lawsuit would find it hard to find purchase but as it stands, GH and the others are accessories to piracy by releasing keys and methods to the public domain instead of simply releasing work that compromised the ps3 system without divulging how it is done. It's like giving active nukes to rogue states and being indifferent to the consequences of doing so, affecting airs of belief that everyone will be responsible like breaking their consoles to only play their little homebrews and fiddle with Linux. Yeah right.
One final thing I find funny about this is that all them dongle making parasites would love nothing more for geohot and the rest of the crew to fail and for everyone to remain dependent on the usb jig for playing backups. You could hear the collective groans of pain from China when CFW for the PS3 was first announced. Piracy wins again. "Haha"
01-12-2011
08:12 AM
And why is there so much to do about Apple and Android who do the same thing? I think it is always necessary that I have to confirm if any of my devices wants to send any information about how I use my device or the software to the internet.
In Holland (the netherlands) we have a privacy law and I think this is against privacy rules. But hey, I'm no lawyer...
01-12-2011
08:18 AM
the "Intent to Extort" is funny, he wanted to help them protect the (next?)nextgen against OTHERS who might hack it and not against him... and they make it sound like a extortion.
01-12-2011
08:33 AM
This is just their last effort to grab a leg while they are falling off a cliff. Their system has been compromised so they just want to sent a message to everyone. It was fairly quick tho. The release was what a week ago? Did geohot go through the same thing with the iphone? Also why is sony mad when they are taking away all these features. Solution to sony's problem. Don't take away stuff we had in the beggining.
01-12-2011
08:46 AM
LOL, @ who think that PS3 JB = iPhone JB
Just, LOL
01-12-2011
09:03 AM
Geohot warned everybody not to update to 3.21 and I never did with my Fat PS3. I still have it on 3.15 with OtherOS. After it was getting clear Geohot would never release his 3.21 with otherOS I still didn't update. Only when 3.41 was hackable with the stolen JIG board code (and again, had nothing to do with Geohot's hacking) I bought another PS3 so I could use that one to experiment with jailbreaking.
So nobody stole my OtherOS, Sony stole PSN access from me because I didn't update. And I think I have the right to access PSN on what kind of FW I am.
Same thing as my car dealer says if I don't let him service my car after warranty I have no access to his internet page or user-forum anymore.
01-12-2011
09:10 AM
just make a ps4, stupid sony, they just lost :thefinger:
01-12-2011
09:32 AM
Killerbug took the words out of my mouth, I was essentially gonna write something similar with each charges laid out and how Sony would have a tough time defending their case, but now there is no need, so thank you.
Basically their only hope is to prove that these so called hackers did it for profit. That the distributed the code via hardware or software sale and hold the $ in some type of account.
If they try to tackle profit loss and damaged based on pirated PS3 titles; well Sony is already having issues proving damage loss for their MP3s with more and more Judges demanding the record labels show actual proof and not fictitious proof of damages. So what is to stop the judge from demanding Sony do the same for their PS3 lineup? Not an easy number to prove considering the hackers never distributed the titles to begin with so they can't be liable either way. Similar to Apple's Iphone case.
Either way it will be months before we even see action on this case no matter how the drama unfolds; it shall be entertaining tho.
01-12-2011
09:37 AM
Taking Geohot, won't change anything. Still we hackers have enough of intelligence to make our customized Cfw's. Taking out the Fail0verflow was a mistake. Cause he just gaved us some tools. Now Sony don't realize that he's screewd. Well, i don't think that Sony realize anything... Well. Let's show Sony that it was a mistake to take Geohot. Let's hack the PS3 with Backup manager. And let's show Sony that how big group we are!!
-Cop
01-12-2011
09:48 AM
Props to the guys on the frontline, they gave us the tools for free and take all the risks.
That's why it's better to try and remain anonymous when you release sensitive data.
01-12-2011
09:48 AM
lmao! just proves the point that sony are ****ED!
now they taking people to court... its to late all the stuff is on the net... all the people that will keep the scene alive have the tools needed to make it work...
good luck geohot and failflow!
01-12-2011
09:57 AM
sony should just throw in the towel whats been done is done.......go with the flow..they will always make there money........people will still buy there games....sony the shut
01-12-2011
10:21 AM
I think its fair enough to say that there will be no backup manager for 3.55 now this has come to light .....and every thing has to be proven to be beyond reasonable doubt......and intent to extort is rather a dumb move on sonys lawyers behalf or a very ill trained lawyer because the courts will not look lightly on that accusation .
Next time sony make your hardware and software less vulnerable and to blame others for your lack of expertise is embarrassing to say the least !
01-12-2011
10:26 AM
I've see many people, in this forums and others, state that the EULA is a legally binding contract. If you're an adult, indeed it probably is. This is questionable territory which is beyond the scope of this post.
So, let's assume, for the sake of argument, we're in the US, UK, or in a country that abides by US copyright laws.
This being the context, please keep in mind that if you're a minor, or if a minor has installed the particular piece of software and therefore agreed to the EULA, THE EULA DOES IS NOT LEGALLY BINDING.
At all, no if, and, or buts. Period. No question. This fact is backed by plenty of US case law.
Even as an adult, you have no legal right, nor even any LEGAL POSSIBILITY to enter a minor into a legal binding contract. Period. This, of course, includes a EULA of any piece of software or otherwise, even if you are indeed a parent of said minor. You cannot be legally bound by any contract whatsoever a minor has agreed to, *even if you as a parent requested such*. US law rejects any contracts by a minor whatsoever, no matter the circumstances.
For the sake of brevity, any private contract entered by a minor at any time or under any parental control is immediately and instantly null and void. US law does does currently have a provision that states otherwise.
This, of course, does not include copyright infringement, which is of course is restricted at a federal level above an beyond any EULA.
So next time before installing update and agreeing to EULA have a minor install said update/patch therefore invallidating any contract entered into.:aetsch::aetsch::aetsch:
01-12-2011
10:30 AM
01-12-2011
11:31 AM
So, this is my first comment because I feel like letting this from my chest:
1. I would like to thank every hacker out there, first and foremost geohot and Fail0verflow, who both had a great impact on the scene. I hope u guys are doing fine and keep on working!
2. I dont think that people are understanding what we as a community have done so far: we've got the root key guys. Don't forget what that is. Sony has lost this part. They can't stop us ever since.
But it goes far beyond that - By beeing able to load backup games, and obviously 99% of the community do, Sony looses real money. And I'm talking about MUCH money. Of course, they now try to do everything they can, but in my opinion the fact that they have to sue devs shows just how desperate they really are to prevent us from that, cuz on a software side they cant!
01-12-2011
11:53 AM
It is funny to me that Sony wants to play this cat and mouse game. It didn't seem to hurt xbox 360. They still make games , consoles , kinect. The big game makers still make games for both consoles. I just don't want to hear the excuse that people don't make PC games anymore because of piracy, since now there is piracy available on all platforms. PC, Wii, Xbox 360, PS3. It is now a level playing field.
01-12-2011
12:15 PM
01-12-2011
01:35 PM
"Maybe it would be a better business model if consoles were offered on a monthly subscription basis, that way if the console RRODs, you just get a new one shipped out in it's place. If Sony wants to remove a feature, they just change their rental agreement. If Sony needs to update their keys, ship out some new hardware.
Until then, if we buy the hardware, don't tell us what to do with it."
thought i should share this quote from an engadget comment....this would make sense if sony think we are only RENTING the Ps3 hardware
01-12-2011
01:52 PM
Sony has made one VERY large mistake with this case. They grouped to many charges into a single hearing. The good thing about this (bad for Sony) is that all Hotz and 0verflows lawyers have to do is disprove ONE of the charges, and the whole case is thrown out the window. And, as several people have already noted, quite a few of the charges are dubious at best.
01-12-2011
03:43 PM
01-12-2011
04:24 PM
01-12-2011
05:22 PM
LOL geohot put all the info back up on his page.
01-12-2011
05:47 PM
Here is my mirror of fail0verflow tools, Geohot tools and website and PS3 keys.
http://ps3.virtualwars.org
01-12-2011
06:52 PM
Sony's main arguments are based on the assumption that they somewhat support piracy and as we all know that is Dead wrong, Geo and failOverflow should be relatively safe.
At least I Hope.....
01-12-2011
07:23 PM
WTF kinda charge is "Knowing Transmission of Code"
So....being smart is a crime?
I'm not even saying whether their actions were legal or not, i just wanna know what's up with that charge?
01-12-2011
10:39 PM
UPDATE:
According to PSGroove, Geohot response is now available, you can view the response HERE. The response basically defends Geohot and claims that Sony’s actions are not justified against Geohot. Furthermore you can also see refiled documents by Sony outlining tactics similar to the PSJailbreak lawsuit (view HERE).
Read more: http://www.ps3hax.net/2011/01/sony-t...#ixzz1AtVIHCs6
01-12-2011
10:46 PM
01-12-2011
10:49 PM
Is it possible to create a ds emulator for ps3?
01-12-2011
10:53 PM
so if we all know and have the codes and keys they should come after all of us right?
well psx scene "brothers and sisters" let get strong and go against sonys actions... i know they wouldnt like to go in to a court going against some one with military lawyers...
:thefinger:
geohotz is going to be ok...
Son of a military background
01-12-2011
10:59 PM
the thing i don't get is why Sony has to be a complete butt-munch about the whole subject. i know people who strictly buy xbox 360's JUST FOR THE BACKUP CAPABILITIES. yet, if you look at the sales, xbox has sold more over the last couple of years than PlayStation 3. it comes to show you that backups don't hurt as much as you'd think they do, especially when that's not the goal to begin with. and with Sony catching up on sales strictly do to content, imagine if they totally let us have homebrew on our systems, or even simpler, give back Other OS. Sony is living a lie by thinking all is well by continuing with their shenananigans. they are missing out on being able to sell tons just on the fact alone that the ps3 is a monstrous console with so much potential, only to have it locked away due to ignorance and greed.
01-12-2011
10:59 PM
why dont you do us and your self a favor and stand up and cheer for these great guys that brought us these great things you call homebrew and cfw...
i support you geo hotz and fail0verflow
you'll do ok dont stress from all this crap...
lay back and kick you feet up and say "f u sony im better then you"
01-12-2011
11:11 PM
@sebas6681
I hate sony as much as you do,but just to make things clear with you... Sony loses money on selling the console, they are making money from games. microsoft xbox360's hardware is not as expensive as ps3's hardware. so thats why they are trying everything atleast just to delay everything for the scene. its a losing battle with them, they are in loose-loose situation right now.
01-12-2011
11:34 PM
I went ahead and uploaded these seperatly and renamed them. Never hurts to have multiple sources anyway...
http://www.filedropper.com/geohot-affidavit
http://www.filedropper.com/geohot-response
It's damn nice to see a well thought out and educated legal response to these bullies. I hope they get put in their place.
Those asses should be sued themselves, for removing otheros and for setting up the ps3 to secretly upload things about how u use your ps3 every time it starts regardless of psn status.
They are bullies and they suck and I hope they lose.
On a side note...
01-12-2011
11:58 PM
Updated first post with additional docs
01-13-2011
12:06 AM
Originally Posted by nm2010 View Post
Read the terms of service when you sign up to psn
This data is transmitted even if you don't have a psn account, as long as your ps3 is connected to a source of internet these logs are sent to sony. I personally feel that is a huge violation of privacy and I'm sure there would have to be a law against it....?
************* [ - Post Merged - ] *************
01-13-2011
01:06 AM
his lawyer is awesome in pointing out that PSN is only relevant if it was used a mechanism for distributing the "keys"
01-13-2011
02:15 AM
Sony is hiding something. They wouldn't be this aggressive if it were about piracy. If they had such a bug up their ass about piracy, they wouldn't still be selling the ps2.
I think they're afraid the root key will be used to uncover something illegal on their part, probably violations of privacy law by gathering information. It may seem trivial to gamers if they can gather info from your console while signed out of PSN. But thinking of it as a pc, it's something pc manufacturers or OS makers could get in hot water for.
If something like that becomes an issue, the US federal government may finally notice they've been trusting a foreign corporation with possibly classified information for the last 4 years. Everything on the ps3 OtherOS clusters in the Air Force, Navy and other research centers could easily have been siphoned off by Sony.
The Feds would be crazy not to consider that a security risk, especially because:
) Sony has already been caught stealing info via cd rootkits
) They have no reason to trust Sony any more than Toshiba, Sony's co-developer of the Cell BE.
Toshiba of course was caught selling secret military submarine tech to the USSR in the 1980's, in violation of agreements with the US, and its products were banned from the US for two years.
Even if Sony isn't caught stealing secrets, if they're found in violation of privacy law they could face a similar penalty. A ban on US imports could drive them bankrupt.
01-13-2011
03:22 AM
01-13-2011
04:06 AM
SONY is so desperate, you can see it on their actions.
01-13-2011
04:44 AM
I moved my post to here.
http://www.ps3hax.net/showpost.php?p=151644&postcount=6
01-13-2011
05:03 AM
try harder Mr.Hotz, you will be jailed or forced to pay lot of ca$h :D.
Nuff Said
01-13-2011
05:23 AM
lol $ony have just copy pasted a tonne of forum post and news articles and called them evidence. But did they get permission to copy the BBC news article, it is after all copyrighted, they even copy and posted the copyright notice.
01-13-2011
10:01 AM
As an ethical hacker as far as things go realistically no law has been broken the only thing i can really see getting anyone into trouble is the ps3 root key being published, however the whole point of it is the freedom to look at how things work and enable homebrew for all, geohot and failoverflow team are not condoning piracy so i can't see the problem and what sony needs to realise is that it is the publics choice whether to abuse the system or utilise it and regardless it is an inevitability that these things happen I mean look at the Wii and the Xbox360? It's ridiculous that they think that because the system has the ability to enable piracy they should b*tch slap anyone who has aided in giving the system homebrew with court, I hope sony gets whats coming to them they need to realise it's freedom of information and the fact of the matter is that it is their own fault for not protecting it well enough they need to let go and realise that most people understand that people in the games industry clearly need to make money for their work and maybe if sony is becoming that desperate they should consider offering an online payment scheme like the Xbox360 so they feel like they aren't losing anything.
rant over lol Good luck to Geohot & Failoverflow Team, Kick some A*S
01-13-2011
11:00 AM
LOL, there is no such think as an ethical hacker in the United States.
01-13-2011
01:13 PM
I hope sony looses this suit then get counter sued. The PS3 was the last sony product Im ever going to buy.
01-14-2011
04:20 PM
UPDATE2:
Sony failed in attempts to get a restraining order on Geohot, to quote @ Geohots Blog: “ As of 2:00 PM EST, 1/14/2011, I am not subject to any TROs“
Read more: http://www.ps3hax.net/2011/01/sony-t...#ixzz1B2yQAN9j
01-14-2011
04:26 PM
why should sony win? hackers find a way to fix every issue, like this issue. sony, just go and make a ps4, dont waste time in trying to be smarter :aetsch:
01-14-2011
04:32 PM
I think mightykhan is dead on. If sony is gathering information secretly than the courts would have it in their best interest to allow the ps3 software to be opened up an examined. Especially if they were being used as linux machine in the military...
01-14-2011
05:36 PM
To my understanding now that Geohot isn't under restraining order he can still post whatever he wants so we're still in luck
01-14-2011
06:09 PM
Just let them put him in jail for life with no parol, he's an ass anyways and he deserves it. With he's "I hacked" and then not releasing anything usefull and holding stuff back from the scene, if you work like that I think you just dont have to join the scene. They just better worked all together and it would all have been done right now.
01-14-2011
06:28 PM
Geohots loving all the attention from this,
He new what was coming and hes loving the FAME
01-14-2011
06:29 PM
@ insanewolf
Yes he may be an ass but he released the tools we use to sign homebrew and allow every single ps3 owner on the planet to enjoy homebrew if they have the desire.
He could have quite easily said here's a pup and a poc, and vanished but he didn't.
Yes he is egotistical but he doesn't just claim to know how things are done, he proves it.
I think the guy deserves a little respect. Not for what he is but for what he's done
01-14-2011
06:38 PM
A Battle has been won but the war is not yet over.
He is not an ass by all means if anything he is paving the road for freedom to use our machines the way we want to! He is the forger of the blade of freedom!
@Insanewolf: Geohot is smart and did very well not to release anything that could've been in Sony's favor. Anyway after he releases his tools someone finds a way to change and enable it for gaming too
Congratulations Geohot!
Sony doesn't even have all their facts straight and they are trying to get Geohot in trouble with fabricated facts and BS forum posts. They will fail! You suck SONY!
01-14-2011
06:54 PM
can we get over this geohot **** and get back on track?:thefinger: ppl need to start deving again
01-14-2011
06:55 PM
Obviously the guy has an ego. I can't say I wouldn't if it were me and I had a hand in jailbreaking two of the most high tech devices on the market.
Then again, the first thing id have done is release a backup manager.....
01-14-2011
07:32 PM
Great success. //borat
01-14-2011
08:22 PM
LOL@ every1 saying fuk sony,really? Are u saying u don't love Sony for the consoles they realese ? They should just quit not make a ps4 tht would shut alot of people up I bet.sure I luv what geohot (and others hav done) and I hope they win there court case,but I still love everything Sony has done
01-14-2011
09:47 PM
no the hate comes from sony taking this to court if they win this they set in motion laws for future consoles down the road this is why they need to be stopped here and now in the process of protecting their console they change the laws as we know it -_-
01-14-2011
10:43 PM
Warning
Calling someone that has done a great things for the scene a clown will not be tolerated. I consider this message as spam. This will be a warning. Next time you will get an infraction
01-14-2011
10:53 PM
When it became possible to play games from the hard drive instead of killing the blu ray (that thing heats up like a jet engine), common sense dictated that we do so. I still hold my original discs, and I hold them dear. I just won't run them if I don't have to.
In present day, my PS3 just sits there. I care more about hearing the latest PS3 news than actually playing it. It's like a long, somewhat interesting movie that never seems to end.
01-14-2011
10:59 PM
01-14-2011
11:56 PM
this is exciting we should make a movie
01-15-2011
01:45 AM
No, A Tv series. It'll be intense. "Can Geohot escape the claws of sony? Find out next week on Ps3Hax!"
01-15-2011
01:51 AM
if sony stops pursuing this all will be forgiven, if not the community will bury them
01-15-2011
04:01 AM
Update 3:
Clarification from readers over at Engadget of the judge ruling, to quote:
Read more: http://www.ps3hax.net/2011/01/sony-t...#ixzz1B5ojRvVh
01-15-2011
04:04 AM
guys, stop getting angry at sony who create awesome consoles like the ps3 and get angry at the idiots who use something made for homebrew for backups and got geohot and others in trouble. i dont want to cause offence but geohot created a perfect way to play our emulators and fail0verflow created a way for us to get linux on the slim but none of them intended for us to play backups. maybe because they were the only smart ones who understood what would happen. remember the dreamcast anyone?
01-15-2011
04:13 AM
Sony is against the community.This was never a good thing to do.
GeoHot is a hero for the community and by putting to jail a hero you ensure that nobody from the comunity will ever buy a product from you!
At least that's what I did with Creative Labs and Daniel_K.Even if Daniel_K didn't do time.