• PS Jailbreak, PSN , 11.01.2011

    Here’s an interesting article Richard Leadbetter from Digital Foundry for eurogamer.net.

    It is about the possibilities for Sony to detect jailbreaked consoles and homebrew software.

    Link to the article

    Some quotations:

    “However, Sony has been remarkably restrained in its response to the Jailbreak even though PSN has been vulnerable for some weeks over the last few months. Does the company have the tools to track Jailbroken consoles and if so, why haven’t we seen the banhammer fall already?”

    “Firmwares 3.42 and 3.5 worked in locking out Jailbroken consoles with the minimum of fuss. Hacks to get compromised consoles onto PSN were neutralised relatively quickly and you can expect the current access Jailbreakers have to PSN with Geohot’s hacked software to be revoked imminently with a new system update.”

    “In future firmwares, expect internal checks to be carried out during run-time and on boot to ensure the integrity of GameOS - these are trivial for Sony to code, invisible to the legitimate end-user and much more difficult to reverse-engineer.”

    Tags: ,

    Discuss in Forums (49)


  • 49 Comments

    1. GregoryRasputin
      01-11-2011
      12:53 PM
      1

      Thanks, front paged, quite an interesting read

    2. all_your_base1
      01-11-2011
      01:06 PM
      2

      I'm sure if your friends can see that you're playing an emulator, Sony will see this as well. They could do what Microsoft did and ban a large amount of consoles at once just to prove a point. That's why I'm staying on OFW.

    3. RoxasDe
      01-11-2011
      01:07 PM
      3

      Thanks for the read

    4. XEO
      01-11-2011
      01:09 PM
      4

      This hack only enlarge popularity and buying of ps3)
      Sony has a big money on this feature) The ban hammer is only will down popularity)

    5. anon101
      01-11-2011
      01:12 PM
      5

      I have a feeling that successful backup launcher = banhammer

    6. havoc2u
      01-11-2011
      01:14 PM
      6

      anything that can be engineered CAN be reversed-engineered its been that way since the beginning of time. ap2.5 for 360 was destroyed almost as soon as it started. sony hasnt had much to say because there isnt much to say. do you expect them to release a statement saying " you got us " I am sure sony will do their best to try to make playing back ups online as difficult as possible. Sony now feels what microsoft has been feeling for quite some time now i'm sure it stings but as time goes on it should hurt a little less everyday.

      i for one am not jumping the gun and will be staying on 3.41 until everything is ironed out

    7. Qraze1
      01-11-2011
      01:18 PM
      7

      playing or doing anything homebrew related while signed in to the psn is just plain stupid, crazy, insane, idiotic, retarded, dumb, derp der, duh, um no, ect!

      sign the hell out if you want to do and play homebrew stuff! if not, you're screwing it up for everyone and is one the godam dumbest things you could do and if you do, don't even wonder why you got banned when you do, because it will happen.

    8. RiPPERD
      01-11-2011
      01:22 PM
      8

      whats the big deal about being banned from psn...

      if any of you had any sense you would have created new ps and psn account when you first used jailbreak!

    9. 2die4
      01-11-2011
      01:23 PM
      9

      Online game hackers deserve to get banned console and PSN id , if u suck, hacking wont make you any better but them 40 yr old virgins dnt get that

    10. NoZart
      01-11-2011
      01:25 PM
      10

      Sony will do the same as Microsoft:
      They will not ban for a long time, and stealthily collect data. As they cannot hope to really cut out jailbreakers forever with one fix, they will allow to accumulate a critical mass of JBs (and collect data all the while), then close the used hole and/or ban them. The hackers will circumvent/find a new hole somehow, Sony begins the game anew.

      The interesting question for me is on how Sony tracks the playstations. If it is MAC/Account, then bans are nothing too bad. If sony has a way of tracking some unchangeable, unique number in the machines, prepare to buy a new PS3 whenever sony swings the hammer.

    11. nvidiagreen
      01-11-2011
      01:25 PM
      11

      As long as i can play backups i dont care

    12. hitsndc
      01-11-2011
      01:26 PM
      12

      #
      RiPPERD - 01-11-2011 06:22 PM

      whats the big deal about being banned from psn...

      if any of you had any sense you would have created new ps and psn account when you first used jailbreak!
      Lol, man its not the account that will be banned, its the console bro...

    13. Rax909
      01-11-2011
      01:29 PM
      13

      I could care less about PSN and playing online. I really rarely did it before sony screwed us over a year ago. Also I don't have a job so psn is pretty pointless for me since I got no money for it. So whatever sony does they can do whatever I don't give a damn. As long as I can still play my homebrew and backups like I have been. And I agree being signed in AND in jailbreak mode hahah is certainly not very smart since Sony obviously can track those systems. Knowing this I got no plans to ever sign in again. I don't think I've signed in since I had 3.15fw and that wa along time ago. Since I'm stuck on 3.41 I am safe.

    14. pspman321
      01-11-2011
      01:32 PM
      14

      Team Xlink is about to have a whole new wave of users

    15. CrystalWolf
      01-11-2011
      01:35 PM
      15

      Thanks for the heads up not gonna on psn just yet or only when absolutely necessary

    16. UrinalSeptim
      01-11-2011
      01:37 PM
      16

      Console bans hardly matter at all if you just swap your banned console at gamestop for a different one.

    17. Horrorwood
      01-11-2011
      01:46 PM
      17

      Originally Posted by Rax909
      I could care less about PSN and playing online. I really rarely did it before sony screwed us over a year ago. Also I don't have a job so psn is pretty pointless for me since I got no money for it. So whatever sony does they can do whatever I don't give a damn. As long as I can still play my homebrew and backups like I have been. And I agree being signed in AND in jailbreak mode hahah is certainly not very smart since Sony obviously can track those systems. Knowing this I got no plans to ever sign in again. I don't think I've signed in since I had 3.15fw and that wa along time ago. Since I'm stuck on 3.41 I am safe.
      Do you mean couldn't?

    18. Qraze1
      01-11-2011
      01:57 PM
      18

      so far since i installed my homebrew i haven't signed in to psn, and when i do if i had done some homebrewy stuff, i'm gonna restart my console just so the machine's log is hopefully wiped. just my own new precaution on doing that.

    19. tech3475
      01-11-2011
      02:24 PM
      19

      According to the article, the console sends the log of app IDs on boot, is this true?

      If it is true I wonder if a CFW can be made to block this if so rather than resort to proxies, etc?

    20. crazyDogg08
      01-11-2011
      02:27 PM
      20

      we will have to pay for PSN!!! Cause this solution would be the best for Sony!

      I hate Geohot!

    21. Whisker
      01-11-2011
      02:28 PM
      21

      An easy solution to all of this is to keep your internet connection disabled and not sign into PSN while using Geohot's 3.55-jb, and flash 3.55 OFW whenever your going to enable your connection or PSN. I say to also disable your internet connection through settings as an extra precaution since, even if your not signed in to PSN, your PS3 connects to the PS3 Media Server in the background when you launch lv2, in order to check for game updates. God knows if they DO have the tools to detect jailbreak consoles on PSN, they'll have tools to detect them on their media servers too, just an assumption of common sense, use jailbreak/cheat at your own risk. :thefinger:

    22. Sniper82
      01-11-2011
      02:36 PM
      22

      glad I don't care about PSN.

    23. XSSniper666
      01-11-2011
      02:37 PM
      23

      Why don't you just block the Ip on your router to avoid accidental connection to $ony just in case. If you do want to play on p$n sure as hell don't cheat or draw attention to yourself.... DON"T BE A PRIC[< AND RUIN IT FOR EVERYONE!!

      Side note: I have a dream of playing halo (original) on my ps3... Is it possible with the gap in technology from the original Xb0x to the current hardware in the ps3 to accomplish this goal? Just curious, please be gentle I don"t mean to start any Sh*t.

      but really

    24. RiPPERD
      01-11-2011
      02:58 PM
      24

      Originally Posted by NoZart
      Sony will do the same as Microsoft:
      They will not ban for a long time, and stealthily collect data. As they cannot hope to really cut out jailbreakers forever with one fix, they will allow to accumulate a critical mass of JBs (and collect data all the while), then close the used hole and/or ban them. The hackers will circumvent/find a new hole somehow, Sony begins the game anew.

      The interesting question for me is on how Sony tracks the playstations. If it is MAC/Account, then bans are nothing too bad. If sony has a way of tracking some unchangeable, unique number in the machines, prepare to buy a new PS3 whenever sony swings the hammer.
      lol u signed up to say that? sony aint tracking **** at moment... were mostly still on 3.41... no tracking files in 3.41 firmware... only thing they might be able tell is that:

      1. we still on 3.41
      2. mac addy
      3. nothing else lol

      like someone said sony didnt think any1 was going to crack the ps3... so didnt need to put in any of that stuff...

      Originally Posted by hitsndc
      Lol, man its not the account that will be banned, its the console bro...
      lol yeah i know... but most people will have used REAL details when signing up for original psn account... so sony will have your full name, address, telephone number etc etc....

      formatted ps3, jailbroke, setup new psn wiv fake details... job done! no sony knocking on my door if we start gettin psn to work haha

      but anyway... im sure wont be long before we get a mac changer... surprised it wasnt 1 of the first homebrew apps tbh

    25. NoZart
      01-11-2011
      03:09 PM
      25

      Originally Posted by RiPPERD

      1. we still on 3.41
      2. mac addy
      3. nothing else lol

      l
      The 3.41 JBers are not online, sony doesnt care about them. Because offline, you have every right to do with your console as you wish.

      The discussion is about banning. Banning means excluding people from using PSN.

      But in the near future, people will be able to join PSN with CFW. And THOSE are the people Sony is concerned about.

      And given the literacy grade of your post i highly doubt that you sniffed out the network traffic/internal logging of the PS3 and therefore know what gets logged and what not. Nobody except a few hackers know for a fact what sony is logging/doing (they could for instance watch in realtime while you are connected, leaving no trace of the logging on the PS3). And they don't tell because they don't want sony to know what they are knowing.

      P.S.: Nobody uses MAC addresses as identifiers anymore, because they can easily spoofed. Sony will use a different method of tracking machines. I would suspect some CPU identifier or something like that...

    26. Qraze1
      01-11-2011
      03:11 PM
      26

      Originally Posted by RiPPERD
      lol u signed up to say that? sony aint tracking **** at moment... were mostly still on 3.41... no tracking files in 3.41 firmware... only thing they might be able tell is that:

      1. we still on 3.41
      2. mac addy
      3. nothing else lol
      um,no. where have you been? this isn't a post about 3.41 jailbreaks, its about 3.55.
      sony ain't tracking 3.41, they're trying to track 3.55 jailbreaks. you don't speak for everyone as most of everybody that has a ps3 and is online, is on 3.55. sony don't care about 3.41 unless they can get psn access.

    27. RiPPERD
      01-11-2011
      03:17 PM
      27

      Originally Posted by Qraze1
      um,no. where have you been? this isn't a post about 3.41 jailbreaks, its about 3.55.
      sony ain't tracking 3.41, they're trying to track 3.55 jailbreaks. you don't speak for everyone as most of everybody that has a ps3 and is online, is on 3.55. sony don't care about 3.41 unless they can get psn access.
      lmao! mate people tested 3.55 CFW... and went back... you need to start reading some posts more

      and again... 3.55 doesnt contain anything that can ban us! 3.60 then yeah maybe!

    28. NoZart
      01-11-2011
      03:27 PM
      28

      Originally Posted by RiPPERD
      lmao! mate people tested 3.55 CFW... and went back... you need to start reading some posts more

      and again... 3.55 doesnt contain anything that can ban us! 3.60 then yeah maybe!
      Just because nothing happened to the people doesn't mean sony didn't watch. Sony cannot ban right away, they have to make sure first there are minimal to no false positives...

      And secondly: it's a given that upon connection to PSN the list of played games and achievements gets uploaded. So Sony will see something like

      11:30 game started pixeljunk eden
      11:35 achievement x unlocked for eden
      11:35 achievement y unlocked for eden
      11:40 game started backupmanager
      11:41 game started black ops
      11:55 achievement x unlocked for black ops

      sure, you could stealth the backupmanager with a different ID, but that brews all sorts of different problems. Its trivial to watch if the network traffic looks like it should given a particular game id. And if it doesnt, sony knows.

      Sony made some hilarious mistakes with their security, but that doesn't mean they cannot fix it (except for the keys, but thats irrelevant for PSN). And there is a whole lot what they can do on their end of the network, without an update.

      I would really like to be able to use homebrew and PSN, but i am not naive and first and foremost: i do not take forum posts as absolute truth as long they are not verified by a trusted source.
      ************* [ - Post Merged - ] *************
      Originally Posted by XSSniper666
      Side note: I have a dream of playing halo (original) on my ps3... Is it possible with the gap in technology from the original Xb0x to the current hardware in the ps3 to accomplish this goal?
      theoretically yes, practically it will not happen.
      Just look at how the PS2 emulation is at the moment: you need a really beefy machine (actually stronger than the PS3) and the compatibility is wonky at best.

      The xbox has an architecture multitudes more complex than the PS2 AND has a bigger operating system going. Reverse engineering that **** would take ages, up until when the PS3 is not a relevant platform anymore....

      But maybe you will be able to play the PC versoin of Halo emulated at some point ;-)

    29. Joel
      01-11-2011
      04:32 PM
      29

      I for one am glad, I don't care if people pirate and whatever but keep them offline. You shouldn't be able to get free games and get access to online like all the other users that pay for it doesn't seem fair. Although now with cfw, I do look forward to playing newer games like the last guardian and uncharted 3 (offline).

    30. mightykhan
      01-11-2011
      05:00 PM
      30

      "Will Sony ban jailbreakers?"

      They'll do it when the time is right. When they stole OtherOS, they really wanted the ps3 to be hacked. It makes consoles more popular and sell better, like the ps2, instead of being in last place forever, like the ps3. All the guff about piracy is a cover to keep publishers happy, but even the publishers don't really care. Or they'd have been making most of their titles for ps3 when it was still locked down.

      They'll ban jailbreakers when they calculate that it will actually spur interest in jailbreaking more than being a deterrent.

      "Can Sony ban jailbreakers?"

      Only Sony knows all the tools they use to gather info about ps3's. Or if a ps3 even has to be logged in to PSN for them to do it. A PSN login identifies a user and permits access to their account; that Sony gathers hardware info at that time doesn't mean they don't do it at other times also, as long as your ps3 is connected to the internet.

      If they do that, it's probably illegal, so it could make it dangerous for them to ban anybody, because they wouldn't want anyone to know about it. Especially the US government which would have to figure out what classified material could have been compromised from all the clusters it operates, since ps3 linux runs under GameOS. They've either just trusted Sony or they haven't noticed the security risk. That could change.

    31. CTID10
      01-11-2011
      05:45 PM
      31

      Lol I've been on geohots 3.55 jb since it came out and been on psn ever since hope I don't get banned,to go back to ofw do u just have to load via USB ? Thanks in advance

    32. blackmath
      01-11-2011
      05:50 PM
      32

      They need to find a way to stop people from playing backups online, but allow them to access the PSN store. I really want to go on to purchase dlc, but also use my system for homebrew. Risk of a ban (if I ever go online....still on 3.41) is just cutting out of their profits.

    33. Whisker
      01-11-2011
      05:53 PM
      33

      Originally Posted by CTID10
      Lol I've been on geohots 3.55 jb since it came out and been on psn ever since hope I don't get banned,to go back to ofw do u just have to load via USB ? Thanks in advance
      Yes (currently you can switch in between geohot jb for offline and ofw for psn), although IF they can detect it and IF they even care they've probably already got your MAC address noted down somewhere on a list of systems responding back with an invalid 3.55 OFW.

    34. Carl0975
      01-11-2011
      07:10 PM
      34

      I'd be pissed if I got banned, everything I've done with the jailbreak is entirely legal, and doesn't negatively effect other users at all(All the roms I've played on emulators are of games I legally own, and I'm definitely not going to be pirating games or cheating online)

    35. bevve
      01-11-2011
      07:38 PM
      35

      yeah! good luck sony :P 1up for the hackers i know the hackers are gonna do so det console always stays jailbroken :P they are the kings and queens if there are that

    36. wheelatboard
      01-11-2011
      08:03 PM
      36

      for us, there is a defenetly a risk if the ps3 is connected to the web(going onlline something different). this to explain is a bit complex, but for those that could not imagine i can just give you the hint in looking to the anticheats for regular windows games-if search deep enough u will find your answer, if not you wont have the knowledge to understand why and so have to take caution.

      something different: you partly talking about pirating and unfairness(relevant to buyers), that they need to make money,...
      ever thought of why pc games are cheaper and get much faster reduced.
      why they are better sold(at least i believe)
      and the devs/companies have to make money? the games are overpriced. you cant tell me that developing for one console with one hardware/specs which is documentated where you often get an engine ready to use and put your stuff in, is more expensive then making a game for pc with all the hardware and different os? nah come on.
      if the pricing would be correct then i would buy more. dont let **** you

    37. frederic1
      01-11-2011
      08:31 PM
      37

      If Sony hasn't banned anyone yet it's because they know they are able to block hackers/jailbreakers from the psn like they have done successfully till the geohot exploit.

      They're working on another fix that should soon come out.

      The day they won't be able to fight anymore, they will start masive bans like on the 360.

    38. UrinalSeptim
      01-11-2011
      08:55 PM
      38

      Just be careful with who you let use your ps3. My brother got his console banned (3.55CFW) after his daughter used it to get on Home.

    39. Joel
      01-11-2011
      09:07 PM
      39

      Originally Posted by wheelatboard

      you cant tell me that developing for one console with one hardware/specs which is documentated where you often get an engine ready to use and put your stuff in, is more expensive then making a game for pc with all the hardware and different os? nah come on.
      It is at least for the ps3 which is a very complex just look at the multiplatform games the first few years compare to the 360 and they look bad. Also the makers of killzone and uncharted didn't use the engine from sony they actually made their own. Demon Souls did use Sony engine though but as you can see it is not as graphical impressive.

    40. L1ONE
      01-12-2011
      01:53 AM
      40

      Wouldn't we be able to just rename the PKG's (Or the metadata that lists it under our PSN username), if they were renamed to some generic game e.g. Call Of Duty: Black Ops

      would sony be any the wiser? Would it not just look like we were running that, or would they do signature check etc.

    41. stayboogy
      01-12-2011
      02:39 AM
      41

      as i said several days ago when this all got going good--

      sony will fix this with an update. i think it's going to be much like it was before, you can either stay on 3.55 that's been patched / modded / hacked or you can just download the new update which will be mandatory to get on psn.

      aside from this, the big idea for everyone who likes the perks of being able to run homebrew and backups would be to invest time / effort / money into building and hosting servers so that a whole other network could be run, the gamers' network if you will. of course that would take so much, but it is possible

    42. ddsdavey
      01-12-2011
      04:07 AM
      42

      Who the bloody hell wants PSN anyway,its garbage! Ive got my faithful 360 for Cod and my lovely PS3 for quality media playback etc (oh and Killzone!).

    43. AgentFortyS3v3n
      01-12-2011
      04:20 AM
      43

      Would being banned cripple Blu-Ray playing.

    44. GregoryRasputin
      01-12-2011
      04:21 AM
      44

      Originally Posted by AgentFortyS3v3n
      Would being banned cripple Blu-Ray playing.
      No..........

    45. Omuyasha
      01-12-2011
      08:45 AM
      45

      What if you completely remove internet access from the PS3 (like disconnecting the Ethernet cord from the console), is it still possible that they can log the information onto Sony servers? Please answer and thanks in advance.

    46. Cop
      01-12-2011
      09:21 AM
      46

      Their just trying to make us scared... I don't think they can find out who's hacker or who's not a hacker. But yea it's possbile. But **** Sony. :thefinger:

      -Cop

    47. TnF
      01-12-2011
      09:47 PM
      47

      i think we should do the same think with iphone...we own the hardware and we are allowed to run whatever we want...there is no reason to get banned because of this..

    48. MitchenX
      01-19-2011
      07:51 PM
      48

      I'm sure the ban-hammer will drop soon enough... My only concern is making damn sure all of my PSN content works. If so, they probably won't notice me as I have no reason to connect to their service. Any time now they will require a firmware update to connect anyway, so banishment is irrelevant.
      I'm guessing that changing over to CFW probably requires PSN content to be reactivated, so we better get to it right away!!!

    49. AsSiTcH
      01-19-2011
      09:14 PM
      49

      Originally Posted by Omuyasha
      What if you completely remove internet access from the PS3 (like disconnecting the Ethernet cord from the console), is it still possible that they can log the information onto Sony servers? Please answer and thanks in advance.
      yea, they can log it by scanning your thoughts.........