• PS3 Hacks, PS3 Legal (Sony) , 26.02.2011

    graf_chokolo had his house raided a few days ago and now geohot has something to say about it. Read the full article below.

    As many of you already know, 2 days ago his house was raided by the German police. Talk about a guy who clearly had no involvement at all with piracy, cheating, or the things Sony claims to care about. Do you want to know what he has that enrages the suits at Sony so much? Talent.

    Some people call me immature, and you know what, they are probably right. Some call me stubborn, and they are right too. But this pales grossly in comparison to Sony, who is so butthurt over the PS3 being hacked they they are blinded by rage and incompetence.

    A question, how many people do you think knew or cared on January 10 about all this? Maybe a couple hundred thousand? Under a percent of your market share. And these are geeks, who frankly aren’t going to change their content purchasing habits based on the news. These are the kind of people who really are hacking their PS3 just for the sake of doing it, just cause it’s cool. The kind of people who are telling you the truth when they say they really did just hack their PS3 to run Linux. Or they are diehard pirates who never would have bought the games anyway, you know the type.

    Now fast forward to February 25. Consistently, the top Sony related news article is about the PS3 being hacked. And the causal gamer comes along and sees, oh cool, the PS3 has been hacked, now I don’t have to buy games. With a few google searches, they come across stuff that I or graf_chokolo had nothing at all to do with. They install it and hit the torrent sites. Hell, I was on a political news show last night, you think those people ever would have heard about this?

    Just imagine what the third party devs are thinking. The PS3 is hacked forever and Sony can’t do anything but fire away at scapegoats. Great confidence boost.

    This grand show against people who aren’t even pirates has to be one of the worst corporate moves in recent history, perhaps even as dumb as the rootkit fiasco. Your competition fixes the problem technically and moves on. They want it to stay quiet. And as far as sending a message to “evil” hackers goes, it really isn’t working. Just read the writings of graf_chokolo.

    And I quote “SONY wants about 750.000 euros from me if i don’t cooperate They don’t know me at all I don’t care about it and they might double it The higher is the sum the higher gets my motivation They don’t understand what makes me tick. Money and even my life doesn’t mean to me very much without knowledge. I have a scientific mind and the knowledge is food to my brain.”

    They’ll never understand people like us. They are scared, as they rightfully should be. We built your PS3. We built this world. We are not mindless consumers. It is us with the brains and curiosity, not you with the guns, jails, suits, titles, and dollars. And the truth is, if all of you disappeared tomorrow, the world would continue on fine. Good luck surviving without people like graf_chokolo.

    Source

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    Discuss in Forums (65)


  • 65 Comments

    1. GregoryRasputin
      02-26-2011
      12:27 PM
      1

      Front paged, thanks.

    2. jrvo
      02-26-2011
      12:42 PM
      2

      He is absolutely right. People like graf build knowledge others can build upon to improve our lives. There is no way to deny it.

    3. jazneo
      02-26-2011
      01:25 PM
      3

      i think sony hiding somthing and think linux will unlock everything what the ps3 has. maybe it has all there password and username for there accounts lol built in the chip of the ps3 lol or they worry somone can make there part for the ps3


      why there not attack dean and all other backup managers. that the homebrew bring piracy and same with all the emulator

    4. yigga
      02-26-2011
      01:26 PM
      4

      something rellay respectful and right thing to say!
      Haven't heard this sort of thing for a long time of him.

      THX GEOHOT

    5. a843613
      02-26-2011
      01:26 PM
      5

      Despite all the arguments: they are opening - knowingly - the door for script kiddies & game pirates. Don't get me wrong, it's ok for me if people copy games as I think those people wouldn't buy games any way. But all the shiny heroes are mostly self representing and trying to get to the front page. It's not for the greater good it's for the ego.

    6. kvcusa
      02-26-2011
      01:26 PM
      6

      Geohot and graf_chokolo you guys are the Man of sony are afraid!!! And nobody cant deny....

    7. phantom76
      02-26-2011
      01:30 PM
      7

      graf_chokolo has balls of steel!
      He deserves enough respect for standing up for what he believes in, He also deserves to have the full support of the ps3 community.

      Geohot deserves jack ****, He done what he did for his own self gain!
      Geohot doesnt care about the ps3 community, He's just using us and will screw us over very soon.
      Everything he done was done in the hope of getting a job!.

    8. jazneo
      02-26-2011
      01:34 PM
      8

      Originally Posted by phantom76
      graf_chokolo has balls of steel!
      He deserves enough respect for standing up for what he believes in, He also deserves to have the full support of the ps3 community.

      Geohot deserves jack ****, He done what he did for his own self gain!
      Geohot doesnt care about the ps3 community, He's just using us and will screw us over very soon.
      Everything he done was done in the hope of getting a job!.
      well if we didnt have geohot then the ps3 would never been exploit. and it best for geohot to do the court thing if you put in the other hacker he would lose the case really fast. because he dont have any background how big corps work like geohot does.

    9. phantom76
      02-26-2011
      01:37 PM
      9

      Originally Posted by jazneo
      i think sony hiding somthing and think linux will unlock everything what the ps3 has. maybe it has all there password and username for there accounts lol built in the chip of the ps3 lol or they worry somone can make there part for the ps3


      why there not attack dean and all other backup managers. that the homebrew bring piracy and same with all the emulator
      You could be right about them hiding something!
      Maybe its more Patent InfringementS LOL

    10. Relikk
      02-26-2011
      01:42 PM
      10

      Excellent article. Some real blinding truths in there that Sony need to take note of.

    11. Ozz
      02-26-2011
      01:43 PM
      11

      I think something Major has or can happen because of this. That maybe why $ony is aggressively attacking the devs. There may be a hole into $ony,s systems via the hacked PS3 or with the Master Keys. Or $ony may have guaranteed Game devs that it wouldn't be hacked and they are now in breech of contract.
      Who knows, I'd like to find out

    12. Bi0Hazard
      02-26-2011
      01:46 PM
      12

      some of you guys maybe right about geohot just doing it for ego but if it wasn't for him, we probably wouldn't have alot of stuff we do now. he may be going on the media and **** but if i was as smart as him and in his shoes i would probably do the same thing to get my side of he story out n let ppl know what i was doing. with his fw he didn't enable piracy just made homebrew an option. some ppl may want sony to win this to show him a lesson but if they do i would say they would go after every one, not just dev's, people like us who have cfw to play homebrew and backups of the games we own.

    13. phantom76
      02-26-2011
      01:50 PM
      13

      Originally Posted by jazneo
      well if we didnt have geohot then the ps3 would never been exploit. and it best for geohot to do the court thing if you put in the other hacker he would lose the case really fast. because he dont have any background how big corps work like geohot does.
      I see what you are saying and I respect your views.
      I just think geohot will sell us out to sony so he gets the job he wants, then the ps3 will be locked down again, Then we will have to wait ages for someone else to rehack it.

    14. darkfroggy
      02-26-2011
      02:00 PM
      14

      LOL!!! Did they ever played bulletstorm on ps3, imagine the role playing character looks like geo and his partner Ishi looks like chokolo , they like to trashing stuff from the Corperation :D

    15. Mystt
      02-26-2011
      02:10 PM
      15

      Well said Geo, and the fact remains the majority of people honestly don't care either way; makes me wonder what the hell Sony's upper management is thinking by wasting so much $ on these pointless tactics.

    16. NNTB
      02-26-2011
      02:12 PM
      16

      the reason Sony doesn't want Linux on their ps3.

      linux was used as a way to try and get non gamers involved in the ps3. to send a msg saying people who write your own code come onto the ps3. its a powerfull platform. the msg was that it was more powerfull then any other gaming system...

      however sony viewed it as a gaming system. and if they let full linux on it people would be running windows games on it or not spending thier time in the sony side of it. it would damage game sales. and lower the amount of people who play online on the psn.

      imagine if they got World of warcraft and vent running on it... i mean sony takes a hit on evory unit sold. from thier view it makes since to axe linux.

      ps3 sales where way down untell geohot fist hacked the hyperviser last year. removing of linux caused a small "rush" in sales for older consoles that wernt crippled.

      sonys msg from the 2nd generation of ps3 hardware was. we are going to be taking away features.

      ps2 hardware / ps2 emualtion / all the usb ports and memory card slots / linux

      all was chipped out of the ps3 in order to "lower costs"

      sony donst want linux on it because it had potentioal for a loss of revinue...

      they didnt see it for a potential of increased revenue

      if it had fully unlocked linux and was at a price point where sony made money not lost money

      ps3 would have sold alot more then it had before being hacked.

    17. laz305
      02-26-2011
      02:15 PM
      17

      For real Sony needs too stop crying over under 1%. I speak for myself and I know I'm not alone but if I couldn't hack my PS3 that would not change my rate of buying games at all. I look at it this way if the product is worth a dam then hackers will buy it. I can't imagine anyone that doesn't own a copy of GOW3 or GT5. I also own 2 PS3's just so I can hack and have 1 legit.

    18. eiamhere69
      02-26-2011
      02:34 PM
      18

      Not long after the PS3 was released, but way before it was hacked, I knew Sony were collecting unnecessary data and no doubt performing other illegal activities. Not just by judging them on past experience (root kits, etc.) and the fact they have no moral standards, but becasue they were so very, very defensive. This was always about a lot more than piracy.

      Granted they don't like piracy, who does , and they certainly don't like losing control. However since this has leaked we have discovered that Sony has the equivalent of a PS3 root kit.

      It was also discovered that Sony apparently use unathorised code, I'm sorry I don't remember what licence this coding was protected under or registered by. Sure it was something to do with linux and core of PS3 operating system.

      All this without even mentioning the acts of removing features from a system, customers being refused their legal right to a repair or replacement under warranty for faulty workmanship (Sony try to charge anything upwards from �120 to �160 from posts I've read.

      The system at it's most basic level does not perform as advertised as updates must be either downloaded, or further funcionality sacrificed.

      I remember the YLOD being investigated by Watchdog (Uk program funded by BBC) and Sonys response was that all of their invesigations were wrong and that legal action would be taken if more "untrue" statements were reported.

      All Sony ever do is lie and sue. They were very fortunate that the Xbox 360 had such an appalling failure rate, that they were able to hide behind it. Sony never actually released figures for failure rate, I wouldn't belive what they said even if they did.

      No suprise that the press only ever report how evil hackers are and how piracy is damaging our now very fragile economy - nothing about corporate incompetance (something I just made up... I think)

    19. kenbuc2
      02-26-2011
      02:35 PM
      19

      As only a nerd or geek or indeed hacker (a mixture of both) would write this type of thing but sony is a massive corporation to all of the 60's-80's, as today most just spread that word of Sony and realize that their device's are decent AND USE TO BE KNOWN AS RELIABLE. As Sony is seen now is in terms, a scared company that indeed has broken the law to get what they want now (as some their companies that they bought out had originally done). Putting this into an analogy for all to understand, Sony is Freza and We are Goku & trunks, Seen as almighty until someone puts them in their place. Freedom is set and all we are is being threaten. As others would assume that we are the bad ones but indeed that is just a propaganda image that has been put in the heads of the everyday non-modding and misguided public by Sony of America and Sony of Japan. Geohot, graf_chokolo, Team0verfl0w, they arent doing anything wrong more then just being , as Geohot stated in hist rap "personification of freedom for all".

    20. spec8320
      02-26-2011
      02:52 PM
      20

      one word "respect".

    21. lisapower
      02-26-2011
      03:04 PM
      21

      i agree, RESPECT!!!

    22. tech3475
      02-26-2011
      03:08 PM
      22

      Sony's actions are so ****ed up I honestly don't know where to begin.

      I could do a rant of my disgust with them and how they have destroyed all my respect for their company.....but clearly they don't care about their consumers.

      Unless I am given one, the PS3 will be my last Sony console because I can never trust them again.

    23. dkmaster
      02-26-2011
      04:39 PM
      23

      One of the best articles I have ever read.

    24. hackster
      02-26-2011
      04:43 PM
      24

      All you dirtbags should donate some money. There are sooooo many of you dirtbags here that if you donated enough money equivalent to one game he'd have quite the treasure chest of a defense fund.

      The only problem is that dirtbags don't donate, they only complain and talk **** about the smart people in the scene!

      Stop talking about respect n' stuff as if your respect, opinions, or anything means anything since your no better than leaches just downloading the awesome apps for free to use to pirate.

      Then most of you guys have the nerve to come here and rip apart the developers and reverse engineers.

    25. TehAwesome
      02-26-2011
      05:32 PM
      25

      Three things..

      One- Without geohot, I believe the scene would still be just fine. Right now, I don't think a whole lot of people use the GH CFW. Sure, he 'cracked' the system wide open. But he did so using the tools and knowledge that Fail0verflow provided to the public. I really think it would have only been a matter of time before somebody like waninkoko or kmeaw followed the same steps, resulting in on being where we are today. I'm not discounting his efforts, or what he is going through, I'm merely just saying that he wasn't the sole end-all hacker that broke into the ps3.

      Two- Sony originally put OtherOS on the ps3 as a way to garner tax breaks. Without the otheros option, they would have had to register it as a game console which results in higher taxes paid vs. a home computer system. Slap on OtherOS, call it the Playstation 3 home computer system, and like that they started saving a bit of money. That really came back to bite them in the ass though.

      Three- The only reason I can think of that they haven't gone after kmeaw or deank or other devs is well, they have. They are the currently unnamed 100 john does. Sony just doesn't know who they are, so they can't actually name them. I'm quite confident if they found out however, that you'd be seeing their names all over the news too.

      That best point made however, is over market share. A minute fraction of people have run this code in the grand scheme of things. Take it like Microsoft. Ban and move on. The more you piss of those with the technical knowledge to bring you down, the more they will want to bring you down.

    26. Wolfie708
      02-26-2011
      06:15 PM
      26

      Originally Posted by hackster
      All you dirtbags should donate some money. There are sooooo many of you dirtbags here that if you donated enough money equivalent to one game he'd have quite the treasure chest of a defense fund.

      The only problem is that dirtbags don't donate, they only complain and talk **** about the smart people in the scene!

      Stop talking about respect n' stuff as if your respect, opinions, or anything means anything since your no better than leaches just downloading the awesome apps for free to use to pirate.

      Then most of you guys have the nerve to come here and rip apart the developers and reverse engineers.
      Would you care to elaborate on how you know just who has not contributed or is unwilling to?

      You are obviously directing your accusations at yourself as the only 'dirtbag' I have seen on this thread is yourself.

    27. devon_1
      02-26-2011
      06:27 PM
      27

      Kenbuc2

      Sony is Freza and We are Goku & trunks, Seen as almighty until someone puts them in their place.


      LMAO....ROFL....LOL

      Priceless stuff :-)

    28. JPOrtiz831
      02-26-2011
      06:59 PM
      28

      Sony should be happy look at all this free publicity they are getting. I have all 3 consoles Xbox 360 wii and PS3.

      Until PSjailbreak and all the modding scene as well as Multiman and all these backup manager came out I had one ps3 with a broken bluray drive with very few games i think i had turok motorstorm and spiderman in bluray.

      now that the scene has exploded i still have my one ps3 with a broken bluray drive but now its pimped out i have 30 bluray movies and twice as many games. I also bought 2 new ps3 with working bluray drives and i never would of done any of this if it wasnt for the great people like graf and geo who showed me the true meaning of FREEDOM.

      Now i check this site many times a day and im very involved just like we all are.

    29. makaveli101
      02-26-2011
      07:06 PM
      29

      $ony should give up, hackers won't give up on fear, & once information is out there they can't cover it up, ps3 is fully hacked & they should just enjoy the ps3 hardware sales increase.

      They see a jailbroken ps3 as a loss of revenue, with the potential of piracy, the fact is pirates will not pay for a game anyways so no loss there.

      With linux hypervisor hacks etc they're seeing that ps3 is being turned into a pc & they think people will run pc games on it etc. instead of playing & payig for ps3 services.

      $ony are the most scared out of all of this. They don't seem to see that the hacks are making more money for ps3.

      i hope geohot wins this, we own a product & we should be allowed to do what we want with it, if i wanted to throw it out of a window they wouldn't sue me for that would they? but somehow if i wanted to run an unsigned app on it they will attack me for it... wow so they are so scared of piracy,

      xbox 360 & wii & have been hacked for a long time now, both consoles have potential of piracy, 1 million users where banned from xbox live last year that means 1 in 50 users pirate (not exact facts since offline users aren't included but most people have online these days) but xbox 360 & wii both hardware & game sales are very high.

      They need to chill the f*ck out, we all like ps3 products & we respect it, just respect our freedom in what we do to it. You can attack the pirates as most hackers don't support piracy. Just because we use backup managers doesn't mean we pirate games.

    30. gliitch
      02-26-2011
      07:20 PM
      30

      I aggree with wolfie. That dood certainly has some issues o_0

      And another thing i know its supposed to be about graf, but all i got was "me me me me. Oh look im geohot, blah blah blah" which was the underlying subject.

      He can't write one self artical without including himself in it. >_<

    31. RoxasDe
      02-26-2011
      07:32 PM
      31

      The day will come when justice will be on top
      We just need to wait

    32. Wolfie708
      02-26-2011
      07:46 PM
      32

      I couldn't agree more with you Gliitch, and I did grin at his mention of talent virtually straight off the bat. It wasn't so much in support of Graf, but a wave in the air so we do not forget about him now that he has a much better liked, and vastly more talented in my opinion, rival for the limelight lol.

      I appreciate the things he has done for the scene, but all his work was on the back of others. Oh, excepting having people donate money into his personal account. He did that all on his lonesome.

      Call me a gh hater, but until he changes his attitude on himself and others, then my opinion will stand.

    33. Kondor1
      02-26-2011
      08:14 PM
      33

      If i am not mistaken, this also would make an iphone a "Computer" too? PLEASE DISCUSS THIS!! lol.

      Customer By Web Form 02/23/2011 09:12 PM
      I am curious. Is the Playstation 3 still considered a computer after the removal of OtherOS or just a console? If still considered a computer, please tell me why? If a console, why does it still fall under Sony Computer Entertainment America, as a Sony computer would?

      Response Via Email (Sarah E.) 02/26/2011 10:16 AM
      Hello Tobby,

      Thank you for contacting us regarding your questions about the PlayStation�3 system. The PlayStation 3 would still be considered a computer due to the online capabilities, media server connectable, able to stream media content from the Internet.

      I hope this information has been helpful. I would like to thank you for giving me the opportunity to assist you. If you have any further questions and/or concerns regarding this or any other issue you may have with any PlayStation�product please, email us again.

      Regards,
      Sarah E.

    34. Wolfie708
      02-26-2011
      08:27 PM
      34

      Originally Posted by Kondor1
      If i am not mistaken, this also would make an iphone a "Computer" too? PLEASE DISCUSS THIS!! lol.

      Customer By Web Form 02/23/2011 09:12 PM
      I am curious. Is the Playstation 3 still considered a computer after the removal of OtherOS or just a console? If still considered a computer, please tell me why? If a console, why does it still fall under Sony Computer Entertainment America, as a Sony computer would?

      Response Via Email (Sarah E.) 02/26/2011 10:16 AM
      Hello Tobby,

      Thank you for contacting us regarding your questions about the PlayStation�3 system. The PlayStation 3 would still be considered a computer due to the online capabilities, media server connectable, able to stream media content from the Internet.

      I hope this information has been helpful. I would like to thank you for giving me the opportunity to assist you. If you have any further questions and/or concerns regarding this or any other issue you may have with any PlayStation�product please, email us again.

      Regards,
      Sarah E.
      I think they can get around it by not classing it as a PC. I seem to remember something from years ago to do with Apple as their original machines were not classed as a Personal Computer only a Computer due to not being modular and having a closed system OS unlike the rest. I can't remember the ins and outs of it though so I could be mistaken???

    35. bearmon2010
      02-26-2011
      08:38 PM
      35

      Three Simple Words: Sony is evil!

    36. Kondor1
      02-26-2011
      09:05 PM
      36

      I thought that computers were allowed to be able to have any operating system loaded as the customer seemed fit. Sony calls it a computer instead of console as they stated in their email, therefore shouldn't complain about a closed/open firmware. After all a "computer" could have windows(ce or otherwise)/linux/androidos/appleos/etc. I am sure they could void the warranty, or cut off PSN access (as they have every right to do), but not call it "illegal" or sue.

    37. 2die4
      02-26-2011
      09:12 PM
      37

      They�ll never understand people like us. They are scared, as they rightfully should be. We built your PS3. We built this world. We are not mindless consumers. It is us with the brains and curiosity, not you with the guns, jails, suits, titles, and dollars. And the truth is, if all of you disappeared tomorrow, the world would continue on fine. Good luck surviving without people like graf_chokolo.

      Read more: http://www.ps3hax.net/2011/02/geohot...#ixzz1F7aR1ZpF
      best part of the article

    38. eintopf28
      02-26-2011
      09:36 PM
      38

      lol!!!! take a look at this! ---> http://www.geohot.us/2011/02/geohot-...ions-from.html

    39. depblkman
      02-26-2011
      10:03 PM
      39

      Originally Posted by Wolfie708
      I couldn't agree more with you Gliitch, and I did grin at his mention of talent virtually straight off the bat. It wasn't so much in support of Graf, but a wave in the air so we do not forget about him now that he has a much better liked, and vastly more talented in my opinion, rival for the limelight lol.

      I appreciate the things he has done for the scene, but all his work was on the back of others. Oh, excepting having people donate money into his personal account. He did that all on his lonesome.

      Call me a gh hater, but until he changes his attitude on himself and others, then my opinion will stand.
      I have to agree and disagree with what you're saying. i agree that his attitude sucks but my disagreeing with you is more like a different way of looking at what he is doing. So he Jb'd the Iphone and now the ideal is that the Ps3 is no different. If he would present it in a better light instead of trying to play the celebrity role, i think people here would take him more serious. but we both have to admit that right now, rather we like it or not, he is the face of the Developers until some one like Graf or the Failoverflow team steps into the media arena.

      Don't get me wrong, i know that he does not represent the 1% of us on the scene. but he's repping himself and unfortunately, the hacking scene. i do appreciate all of the Developer's efforts in allowing us to have the freedom to customize our PS3 and i will never take away from it but maybe we should tell him(Geohot) about it and have him just chill and not overplay his hand. what do you think?
      ************* [ - Post Merged - ] *************
      Originally Posted by eintopf28
      lol!!!! take a look at this! ---> http://www.geohot.us/2011/02/geohot-...ions-from.html
      That can't be true...

      there is no way that can be true!!!

    40. Wolfie708
      02-26-2011
      10:20 PM
      40

      I do agree, and if he can seperate his need to grand stand from the need to argue the case against Sony then it will go a lot better. Both for his support in the scene, and also his image in the eyes of the masses who as a whole (have a look at non scene sites and forums) do not see the reasons behind the case so directly but do see a young man who has already stuck his fingers up at one company and to all appearances is doing this just to add another string to his bow.

      I cannot say I would act any different in his case (I hope not though), but the blind adoration some people have for him is actually quite embarrasing to see lol

      EDIT I think the MS funding rumour is fake for 2 reasons.

      #1 All console makers benefit if Sony wins

      #2 They would be in big trouble I believe for funding him against a rival in a court case?
      ************* [ - Post Merged - ] *************

      Originally Posted by Kondor1
      I thought that computers were allowed to be able to have any operating system loaded as the customer seemed fit. Sony calls it a computer instead of console as they stated in their email, therefore shouldn't complain about a closed/open firmware. After all a "computer" could have windows(ce or otherwise)/linux/androidos/appleos/etc. I am sure they could void the warranty, or cut off PSN access (as they have every right to do), but not call it "illegal" or sue.
      Like I said, I remember something to do with the difference betwen a Computer and a Personal Computer. It had to do with Apple making their OS closed as in needing a licence to write for it much like Sony do with the PS3. Like I said though it was a long time ago so I could be wrong.

      As to the iPhone, the DMCA was changed with direct reference to 'handheld devices', so the iPhone cannot be specifically used as a comparison as to what is allowed regarding Jail Breaking the PS3.

    41. lexar21
      02-26-2011
      10:40 PM
      41

      geohot really nailed it. That pretty much exactly what I've been saying about this whole fiasco with sony.

    42. OoZic
      02-27-2011
      12:14 AM
      42

      Originally Posted by hackster
      All you dirtbags should donate some money. There are sooooo many of you dirtbags here that if you donated enough money equivalent to one game he'd have quite the treasure chest of a defense fund.

      The only problem is that dirtbags don't donate, they only complain and talk **** about the smart people in the scene!

      Stop talking about respect n' stuff as if your respect, opinions, or anything means anything since your no better than leaches just downloading the awesome apps for free to use to pirate.

      Then most of you guys have the nerve to come here and rip apart the developers and reverse engineers.
      Dude? If you did donate you would know Geohot his donation round was closed after 18 hours. so even if you want to donate now you can't. Talking about smart here.

      And don't forget Devs need users to improve their homebrew. But you made it clear you don't even understand what homebrew is. It is your own responsibility how you use homebrew but don't say everybody is using it to pirate games. They don't. It is about what the machine can do, not about what original PS3 games can be played. If I can make my toaster fly by changing a few bits I will do it. Just because I can and it is fun. Not because I want to make a free toast.
      ************* [ - Post Merged - ] *************
      Originally Posted by Wolfie708
      I do agree, and if he can seperate his need to grand stand from the need to argue the case against Sony then it will go a lot better. Both for his support in the scene, and also his image in the eyes of the masses who as a whole (have a look at non scene sites and forums) do not see the reasons behind the case so directly but do see a young man who has already stuck his fingers up at one company and to all appearances is doing this just to add another string to his bow.

      I cannot say I would act any different in his case (I hope not though), but the blind adoration some people have for him is actually quite embarrasing to see lol

      EDIT I think the MS funding rumour is fake for 2 reasons.

      #1 All console makers benefit if Sony wins

      #2 They would be in big trouble I believe for funding him against a rival in a court case?
      ************* [ - Post Merged - ] *************


      Like I said, I remember something to do with the difference betwen a Computer and a Personal Computer. It had to do with Apple making their OS closed as in needing a licence to write for it much like Sony do with the PS3. Like I said though it was a long time ago so I could be wrong.

      As to the iPhone, the DMCA was changed with direct reference to 'handheld devices', so the iPhone cannot be specifically used as a comparison as to what is allowed regarding Jail Breaking the PS3.
      No, but I think one can say the Ipad 3G is no phone anymore (hence the word pad, not phone) and it is allowed to jailbreak it. Apple isn't acting like Sony in this. they know every apple user is an extra apple user.

      And my PS3 is handheld. I can keep the Fat or the Slim PS3 in one hand. and my normal old phone is connected with a cable to my analog telephone company with a wire for communication and power so it doesn't matter if the PS3 is connected with a wire to an electrical point. Only thing is I have to use a BT set to talk and listen. But that is a device I also use with my android phone. Point is: can you communicate with the device and is it locked to one network? For both questions the answer is yes.

      The only reason why sony called the PS3 a computer and OtherOS was on it was because of import taxes in europe. Import taxes for computers are low, import taxes for game consoles are high. The EU should go to Sony to give them a big claim for fraud because Sony claims it isn't a computer now. They changed millions of PS3's from a computer to a game console with their 3.21 update.

    43. innahouse
      02-27-2011
      01:50 AM
      43

      deleted by Admin

    44. TehAwesome
      02-27-2011
      02:00 AM
      44

      The above post is one of the most ludicrous things I have ever read.

      Seriously? ONLY PIRATE! RAWR! F-buying games!

      The only thing that mentality will bring is the stoppage of games being made. If you want to pirate, fine, I have no problem with that, but dammit, actually PAY FOR THE STUFF YOU LIKE. Support the developers.

      And personal opinion- With an attitude like that, I highly doubt you have access to scene servers.

    45. gambaownsu
      02-27-2011
      02:13 AM
      45

      Originally Posted by TehAwesome
      The above post is one of the most ludicrous things I have ever read.

      Seriously? ONLY PIRATE! RAWR! F-buying games!

      The only thing that mentality will bring is the stoppage of games being made. If you want to pirate, fine, I have no problem with that, but dammit, actually PAY FOR THE STUFF YOU LIKE. Support the developers.

      And personal opinion- With an attitude like that, I highly doubt you have access to scene servers.
      I do pirate, I will admit it. I pirate A LOT. But, when I see some reasonable price on the market for a GOOD game I will definetaly buy it to support them (bad company 2 for 19.99$ (now) -- i bought it for 29.99$. Extremely cheap, excellent game. So why not?. But when you see games like COD or crap games, it just begs to be pirated.

    46. ViperMM
      02-27-2011
      02:56 AM
      46

      I used to think geohot was a ******... but to see him link to the hacker manifesto makes me wanna give dude props... If he links to the blackhat credo i will lose it... good to see they haven't silenced him with their legal department :D

    47. gliitch
      02-27-2011
      03:28 AM
      47

      I went through a phase of i like him, i dont like him and well, ive come to the conclusion that i dont like him. Sure he's done some things for the PS3 - but its not for the scene, its to gain notority and more efame.

      There are dev's myself included, (not tooting own horn here) who just want to give back to the scene, as its taught me quite a bit. [yes greg you have too]

      Sure he's got the smarts but his mentaillity towards things is that of a 2 year old.

      Its the ego, that got him into trouble and now he is starting to realise that in order for people to like him, he must talk about someone else aside himself. Even that he screws up royally.
      ************* [ - Post Merged - ] *************
      @Inner jail cell, or what ever your name is. Real Gamers BUY GAMES! You sir are not a gamer, but a leech on socitys gaming community. >_<

    48. Mahi_F1
      02-27-2011
      05:51 AM
      48

      Does this remind anyone of those guys that killed all the ***s, what where they called?... oh that's right NAZI'S! they're ****ing nazi's man.

      Edit: why is "j e ws" blocked out lmfao

    49. profixit
      02-27-2011
      09:54 AM
      49

      I absolutely agree with some of you, he cares nothing about graf. It's just another way of getting attention and trying to appeal to more stupid followers.

    50. OoZic
      02-27-2011
      10:27 AM
      50

      Originally Posted by profixit
      I absolutely agree with some of you, he cares nothing about graf. It's just another way of getting attention and trying to appeal to more stupid followers.
      do you know the saying "the enemy of my enemy is my friend"?

      They are in a kind of way in this together so maybe they can help each other somehow. And the more attention we can get the better it is. Maybe Geohot is with his ego on TV but this way people are wakening up also. The worst thing that can happen is if their cases won't get attention enough because nobody is informed in what Sony is doing. Then the judge will be walked over by the Sony lawyers. So more press attention is only good and his name is good enough to open the right doors.

      and don't forget this: the legal fight has already started. Every word Geohot says can be seen in different ways, does he say it because he wants it or does he say it because it is a legal puzzle and he wants to make it difficult for Sony lawyers.

    51. Wolfie708
      02-27-2011
      10:41 AM
      51

      @OoZic

      Thanks for the info on the import tax, but LOL@PS3 being a hand held device .

      I can hold my TV in my hand, but that is not for normal use, and both TV and PS3 cannot work unless it's plugged into the mains so sorry, but it isn't classed as a hand held device. I think you are mistaking a hand held device for a portable appliance (I'm a Sparky so need to know the difference for my work).

      Your BT landline phone is also called a portable appliance

      The iPad is a hand held device as it is small enough and needs no wired connection to work either as a phone or as a computer.

      As for the PS3 being locked to one network, sorry, but again that's wrong as the network in question is the one which is used to comunicate with other devices, not a specific games network for example. Your PS3 can connect to almost any private network you choose and through a router also whichever ISP network you are with.

      Apple are still actually making complaints about the iPhone Jail Break ruling, and the latest one I think is actually from end of January this year. They are claiming that the Jail Break has allowed copyrighted code on the phone to be altered and used in ways that the ruling does not include for and is illegal based on other copyright and usage regulations.

    52. player213
      02-27-2011
      01:37 PM
      52

      All i can say is Eagle Eye LOL:thefinger:

    53. Tarades
      02-27-2011
      04:29 PM
      53

      My respect for this man increases from day to day. He truly has his head screwed on.
      Is it how it's said in english?

    54. OoZic
      02-27-2011
      04:42 PM
      54

      Originally Posted by Wolfie708
      @OoZic

      Thanks for the info on the import tax, but LOL@PS3 being a hand held device .

      I can hold my TV in my hand, but that is not for normal use, and both TV and PS3 cannot work unless it's plugged into the mains so sorry, but it isn't classed as a hand held device. I think you are mistaking a hand held device for a portable appliance (I'm a Sparky so need to know the difference for my work).

      Your BT landline phone is also called a portable appliance

      The iPad is a hand held device as it is small enough and needs no wired connection to work either as a phone or as a computer.

      As for the PS3 being locked to one network, sorry, but again that's wrong as the network in question is the one which is used to comunicate with other devices, not a specific games network for example. Your PS3 can connect to almost any private network you choose and through a router also whichever ISP network you are with.

      Apple are still actually making complaints about the iPhone Jail Break ruling, and the latest one I think is actually from end of January this year. They are claiming that the Jail Break has allowed copyrighted code on the phone to be altered and used in ways that the ruling does not include for and is illegal based on other copyright and usage regulations.
      it was just a fun part about handheld

      I saw a tv show on the dutch tv (powned for the interested dutch people) and they showed a fun video about someone holding a 41 inch lcd screen or something like that in his hands being an Ipad. I had a very big laugh about this video because it was really looking for real with touchscreen and sliding through Iphone screens although I knew it was fake. Tried to find it on youtube but couldn't find it otherwise I would have linked to it.

      I know Apple isn't sitting down but at the other end, the Iphone is more open as the PS3. Devs can have apps in the apple store in a very easy way, Sony wants to keep every bit of control they can. But I think I did read somewhere today Apple wants to use SCEA ruling also for the Iphone.

    55. Wolfie708
      02-27-2011
      05:11 PM
      55

      Originally Posted by OoZic
      it was just a fun part about handheld

      I saw a tv show on the dutch tv (powned for the interested dutch people) and they showed a fun video about someone holding a 41 inch lcd screen or something like that in his hands being an Ipad. I had a very big laugh about this video because it was really looking for real with touchscreen and sliding through Iphone screens although I knew it was fake. Tried to find it on youtube but couldn't find it otherwise I would have linked to it.

      I know Apple isn't sitting down but at the other end, the Iphone is more open as the PS3. Devs can have apps in the apple store in a very easy way, Sony wants to keep every bit of control they can. But I think I did read somewhere today Apple wants to use SCEA ruling also for the Iphone.
      LOL@41" TV bit, that sounds sooooooooo funny. If you do find the video link make sure you post it please.

      Sony winning this thing could be bad for all things yes, as Apple and MS for example will dive on the band wagon if we lose, but EULA's and TOS's are being questioned in general as well. Norway is a prime example so touch wood (donks self on head) it will all come out in the customers favour in the end.

    56. Icepuppy
      02-27-2011
      06:38 PM
      56

      YouTube - iPad 2 Review - Hands On [HD] 17th of February 2011

      I think that's what you're looking for.

      On the topic though, whether or not you like Geohot, he has brought a lot of attention to the scene and the proliferation of homebrew stuff is moving at a much faster pace. This news about Graf shows that this is very likely to be a precedent setting judgment. I think the judge will want to be very informed on all details before landing this one. Interesting times are ahead.

      I support all of those guys, Geohot isn't a quiet reclusive hacker, and could be said to be an excessive admirer of fame, like it or not. Humble hackers like Graf are legends in their own right, and they all contribute different things to the scene. I wish them the best.

      Can anyone confirm that link that says Microsoft donated money to the legal defense fund? I find that hard to believe.

    57. Musman
      02-28-2011
      05:29 AM
      57

      you dont even need to ask is MS donate is true
      come on dont be so silly

    58. samson
      02-28-2011
      07:15 AM
      58

      well graf's not in jail yet:

      graf_chokolo says: February 28, 2011 at 7:13 am
      Back Still not in a jail SONY�s lawyer sent me a letter with another threats They still do not get how my mind works. They just know me as a hacker, programmer. It�s the one side of medal, the other side, my personality, the person who stands behind graf_chokolo, they have no clue about him. They want to make an example of me, to show the other hackers what will happen to you if they mess with SONY, but they chose the wrong person. I�m not a spineless sheep they thought me to be. Take care SONY, because i could make an example of you.
      http://grafchokolo.com/ps3-developme....html#comments

    59. japsander
      02-28-2011
      07:23 AM
      59

      this is the only image I can use to describe Graf_chokolo and Sony.


    60. zeveroth
      02-28-2011
      08:36 AM
      60

      @ japsander - Can we say Militarization? I agree with the pic u posted, 100%!

    61. OoZic
      03-01-2011
      06:15 AM
      61

      Originally Posted by Icepuppy
      YouTube - iPad 2 Review - Hands On [HD] 17th of February 2011

      I think that's what you're looking for.
      That was exactly the video I was talking about. Dutch TV did some cutting in the vid to make it shorter and the complete vid is even funnier. I had such a big laugh about it. The serious but funny look on his face when he is presenting the "new Ipad 2" ....

    62. dpspcdrgn
      03-01-2011
      06:18 PM
      62

      I really get a kick out of some of these people on these forums.
      Not to put anybody down, but the whole "majority teen gamer" demographic is made quite obvious by the immaturity of a good 60% of the comments I see here.

      Who really gives a sh** if Geohot is in it for the props?
      Is it really such a crime to want some attention for some hard work?
      A little humility goes a long way sure; but come on. When you got it, you got it and both you and I can bet that 90% of our inglorious humanity would be more than happy to receive a little pat on the back or even a public handjob or two with a big fat smile on the face just to show how much we are enjoying the attention.

      I see a lot of jealousy behind the masks at this party, and I can tell you it's better to forget that Prince Prance-Around is the guy getting the fancy cars and the fine wine, and concentrate on the fact that he is also the guy who paid for the whole bit. (Props to those other illustrious donators as well )
      So get on with yourselves, stop the hating, and be sure to remember that when it's your turn to get on your knees you give the guy a little reach around for good measure.

      If attention get's him off, and getting him off keeps him going, than I am more than a little happy to give him a, how you say... Happy Ending?

    63. Fugitive
      03-03-2011
      03:17 AM
      63

      like bob marley said graf, "every little thing is gonna be alright..."

    64. hackster
      03-11-2011
      07:03 AM
      64

      Originally Posted by OoZic
      Dude? If you did donate you would know Geohot his donation round was closed after 18 hours. so even if you want to donate now you can't. Talking about smart here.

      And don't forget Devs need users to improve their homebrew. But you made it clear you don't even understand what homebrew is. It is your own responsibility how you use homebrew but don't say everybody is using it to pirate games. They don't. It is about what the machine can do, not about what original PS3 games can be played. If I can make my toaster fly by changing a few bits I will do it. Just because I can and it is fun. Not because I want to make a free toast.
      ************* [ - Post Merged - ] *************


      No, but I think one can say the Ipad 3G is no phone anymore (hence the word pad, not phone) and it is allowed to jailbreak it. Apple isn't acting like Sony in this. they know every apple user is an extra apple user.

      And my PS3 is handheld. I can keep the Fat or the Slim PS3 in one hand. and my normal old phone is connected with a cable to my analog telephone company with a wire for communication and power so it doesn't matter if the PS3 is connected with a wire to an electrical point. Only thing is I have to use a BT set to talk and listen. But that is a device I also use with my android phone. Point is: can you communicate with the device and is it locked to one network? For both questions the answer is yes.

      The only reason why sony called the PS3 a computer and OtherOS was on it was because of import taxes in europe. Import taxes for computers are low, import taxes for game consoles are high. The EU should go to Sony to give them a big claim for fraud because Sony claims it isn't a computer now. They changed millions of PS3's from a computer to a game console with their 3.21 update.
      Then donate some money to Graf! Lemme guess, it's a scam!

    65. OoZic
      03-11-2011
      07:34 AM
      65

      Originally Posted by hackster
      Then donate some money to Graf! Lemme guess, it's a scam!
      Already did, but did I say somewhere Geohot his donation fund is a scam? I also donated to Geohot so that is not me stating it is a scam I think? I only mentioned the closing of the donation round in my previous answer to your post. If you would have used a normal kind of language (and not calling everybody dirt bags and lurkers http://www.ps3hax.net/showpost.php?p...4&postcount=25) my answer to your post before would have been more kindly
      If someone wants me to do something and they ask it the way you did without even knowing all facts gives me the feeling to do just the opposite or just don't listen. So that is not advertising for funds what you did, it is more like scaring people away.

      Also the whole second part of the quote has nothing to do with any donations. The part of the toaster is funny but true and the rest is about comparing game consoles to portable game consoles with a tiny part phone in it (aka ipad, iphone, android tablets, android phones etc).