April the first 2011, was the first Anniversary of the OtherOS’s demise, it was a full year, since Sony Computer Entertainment, removed the OtherOS function, something they promised they would never do, SCEA celebrated this one year event, by imposing a stricter ToS on us, in secret, they were requisitioning the courts to dismiss the OtherOS case, Groklaw, the popular site for bringing the public court cases, has made a post, explaining how SCEA has asked the courts yet again, to dismiss the OtherOS case, here is a quote from Groklaw:
There’s news from the class action litigation, In re Sony PS3 ‘Other OS’ Litigation, where the plaintiffs are suing Sony Computer Entertainment America for removing OtherOS from Playstation 3s. SCEA has filed another motion to dismiss [PDF] the class action case, once again saying that the plaintiffs’ newly filed First Amended Complaint is insufficient to state a claim. The original complaint’s claims, except for one, were dismissed, with the judge giving the plaintiffs a chance to refile. Now that they have, SCEA says this refiled complaint should be tossed out also. There will be a hearing on all this on May 12th.
And the class action plaintiffs are asking the judge [PDF] to help them get discovery that SCEA is, they claim, reluctant to provide. Role reversal. In the SCEA v. Hotz litigation, SCEA is all about discovery, all they can get. Here, it’s the opposite.
There is a transcript from a February 9th hearing in the Sony class action attached as an exhibit to the plaintiffs’ letter to the judge in the case, and I think you’ll be amazed. Would you like to know what SCEA’s lawyers think of customers who use Linux? We get to find out, because the hearing begins with SCEA asking the judge for access to the plaintiffs’ hard drives. Why would you want that, the judge asks? These are not defendants accused of anything, remember. Sony is the one in the hot seat, but here is the incredible answer: because, says their attorney, these plaintiffs say they used Linux, so SCEA suspects they were part of a hacking conspiracy, and they’d like to check. There’s more, and I’ll tell you all about it.
And SCEA claims in the transcript that it wasn’t the entity that decided to drop OtherOS. It says in this courtroom that Sony Computer Entertainment Inc. is responsible for that decision. In Hotz, SCEA says it is responsible for pretty much everything to do with PS3s in the US, or at least I got that impression. SCEA also tells the judge at the hearing that there’s been a change in the corporate setup. SCEI isn’t the parent of SCEA any more. So I did a little research on that. Who are they then? And how how were they related? I have found some press releases that clarify very nicely.
Here are the filings first, so you can follow along:
This is a great read and for those interested, you really should visit the Groklaw site here.
A lot of people on this forum were affected, one of them being madshaun1984, he used the OtherOS function and was furious when Sony removed the function, as we all were, in his zero PSN incarceration, he managed to get XBMC, running quite well on the PS3 via Linux, after reading the above from Groklaw, he sent me this:
Wow, are Sony really stupid enough to go there??…
Well yes, they are… heres why…
from the recent Groklaw coverage of the OtherOS related lawsuit against Sony…
Well, part of the nexus is how can you come in and ask for damages for a property that you have basically violated? You don’t have an ownership right in the software that Sony Computer allows you to use. That’s it the whole point of the license agreement, it’s not an ownership interest, it is a privilege that Sony conveys on them. And if these people violate the terms of that licensing agreement, they have no entitlement to continued use of a software.
So to summarize, if you own a ps3, you don’t actually own it, because you cant break Sony’s license agreement and install any software you like (or even use the built in software in a way that “might” be an attempt to violate said license agreement).
What ever happened to possession is nine tenths the law??
Sony are now openly stating that we are violating their rights, but fail/more like choose not to see that they are breaking basic ownership laws and violating our rights as a consumer with every unit they sell.
We own the purchased hardware, if we want to use the hardware with software not endorsed or licensed by Sony, sure we forfeit the use of Sony’s software, but its our god given right to choose!!!
If Sony had implemented OtherOS correctly the hackers would of left their precious software alone and happily used the hardware in a non offensive to Sony way (remember the ps3 was unhacked for 4 years, but consumers/hackers alike felt bullied by Sony’s constant lock down/removal of features and decided to push back leading to the whole sorry mess we’re caught up in now).
I think its time Sony went back to basics and started concentrating more on other lines of hardware, as they obviously cant handle the heat of the gaming market!! (Either that or they should pay Microsoft to teach them how to keep the consumer happy!!).
Either way, if things continue this way, I’ll be reconsidering my next gen console choice, and will likely leave out Sony’s next big console, I’m sick of feeling threatened for being curious, or for wanting to do what I’m entitled to do!
I chose to add madshaun1984′s snippet, not just because it is good, but because we rarely here the voice of those that were truly afflicted by the removal of the OtherOS, we read the words of the courts and lawyers, but never of the victims, so enjoy both Groklaws post and madshaun1984′s
04-03-2011
02:50 PM
Don't you think adding the Swastika to the Sony logo is doing a little too much? Sony isn't that evil.
04-03-2011
02:55 PM
There have been similar discussions on the forum regarding the Swastika, its more of the modern meaning that i am trying to get across, if people are really offended by it, i will censor the Swastika like Sony censored our OtherOS.
04-03-2011
03:02 PM
think about it, what they say is "anyone using linux, even though we advertised it is going against what we want and we will treat them with extreme prejudice and theres not a damn thing they can do about it. we make the law, we changed the company name that is in charge (after) this court case started (making it unlawful to demand certain info from them) as WE were in charge at the time (but not now) and therefore will not provide the courts with what is requested"
04-03-2011
03:03 PM
i think it fits just fine the way they have been the past year
= $ony
04-03-2011
03:05 PM
Thanks Greg, great info.
@Annelies.. It's a Very old symbol. Hitler used it in his way, it's being used here in another. It's always been the intent behind the symbol that matters, and noone can deny Sony are trying to dictate everything that happens with all this so it fits quite well on them.
04-03-2011
03:12 PM
XBMC??? WHAT!?!?! for ps3 Where was i when this came out?? does it still exist?? ill kill for xbmc for ps3. Does anyone have it. wouldnt that mean mkv support and every video support with free streaming like netflix. or does it suck cuz it doesnt get to use the full power of the ps3.
04-03-2011
03:16 PM
It was XBMC on Linux for OtherOS, MKV support would have been null at that time, not sure about SD movie support either, the point was, he was told that it wasnt possible and he did it, here is a video of it in action, it even got posted on Engadget:
http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/15/h...-you-how-video
YouTube - XBMC compiled and working on a ps3
Now that we have better Linux on the PS3, XMBC will eventually work quite well.
04-03-2011
03:34 PM
Awesome article Greg :D
04-03-2011
03:43 PM
Doesnt the limitations imposed by Sony in regards to installing and using non authorised software only apply to the GAME OS?
In fact Sony did authorise the use of 3rd party software on the ps3, but it wasnt authorised for use on GAME OS, Sony provided the OS OPTION which means it supported any OS we saw fit to install (linux is open source & is well known for 3rd party software!).
Wasnt yellow dog linux endorsed by Sony?
If yellow dog linux was endorsed by Sony, Then it would suggest that Sony did infact give us the right to install 3rd party software, I mean what use is an OS if you cant install any software on it, or even update it??
Simple logic would suggest that Sony knows any OS would need to install updates aswell as other 3rd party software!
04-03-2011
03:45 PM
Yesterday I tried to decline the new TOS but the PS3 doesn't accept the 'do not accept' option as it just reminds you to use the PSN you have to accept, so I called up sony and was told if I want to cancel my account (something sony said they'd do if we don't accept) I have to email tos_psn@playstation.sony.com tell them I want to cancel my account, give them my e-mail address associated with the account, the gamertag, and ask them to refund the money in my account.
that's exactly what I did I'm waiting for Sony to honor their end and cancel my account, as I will have nothing to do with them, that's saying alot as I was once a loyal customer of theirs, my 3 PS3's are mine to do with as I see fit. Sony will have no say over what I can and can't do with my machines.
04-03-2011
03:56 PM
thats a really interesting read thanks for that
04-03-2011
04:07 PM
Yesterday I tried to decline the new TOS but the PS3 doesn't accept the 'do not accept' option
I was wondering if they were just going to close accts after a month or so
Thanxx for the info
Sony=Swastika=nazi like dictator
Cuz of your sig you probably resent the swastika but they are definitely acting like the true definition of a dictator
I could rant on but that's for another thread
Here's to hoping they lose the gh lawsuit and the other os suit,can someone say,BACKFIRED
04-03-2011
05:11 PM
SCEA? SCEI? SNEA? Sony Corp. America? Sister corporations?
Sony looks to be playing abit of a shell-game with which department actually makes decisions, to shuffle legal liability out of US jurisdiction, while maintaining their ability to prosecute with US laws.
You can't have your cake and eat it too.
04-03-2011
05:24 PM
why can't geohot then tell the courts he can not be sued by SCEA because SCEI were in charge at the time of otheros removal and as they are apparently separate companies SCEI were targetted and would need to sue him, but wait, SCEI can't now as they changed stance didn't they?
play these dirty tactics back at them. SNEA = Sony Now Enter Anally
04-03-2011
06:04 PM
D. California Consumer Legal Remedies Act (“CLRA”)
Plaintiffs contend Sony violated three provisions of the CLRA – California Civil Code subsections 1770(a)(5), (7), and (9), which prohibit “representing” or “advertising” goods or services in a false or misleading manner. For the same reasons discussed above in the context of breach of express warranty, plaintiffs must more clearly identify the particular representations on
which they rely, and articulate why they were false or misleading. Such specificity is all the more important here, because the CLRA claims sound in fraud, thereby implicating Rule 9(b). See Vess v. Ciba-Geigy Corp., 317 F.3d 1097,1103-1104 (9th Cir. 2003) (finding Rule 9(b) applicable to CLRA claim). Again, plaintiffs must address the fact that none of the representations they have thus far identified include any express promise that the Other OS feature would be available indefinitely or for any particular period of time. Accordingly, the CLRA claim will be dismissed, with leave to amend.
Looking at the court document, if Sony decide to remove ANY feature (like Playing games, watching Blu Rays, using a SixAxis controller or anything else on the PS3) in an update, you can't complain unless you can prove they said it would be available indefinitely.
Nice of the judge to look after consumers!!!!!! (NOT)
04-03-2011
06:11 PM
That honestly is one of the most disgusting pieces of information I have read in all this.
04-03-2011
06:12 PM
Don't be offended by the Swastika. I don't want to be a smartass now, but as a greek i know that ancient greeks used to have this symbol on their shields. Spartans actually, so it's origin is before hitler.. As for what it represents, i don't know.. For me it's just a symbol, nothing more...
04-03-2011
06:27 PM
04-03-2011
06:29 PM
swastika is a hindu symbol from india for one of their gods it was hijacked by adolf hitler
04-03-2011
06:32 PM
04-03-2011
06:33 PM
lol ok guys, enough of the Swastika talk and stay on topic please.
04-03-2011
07:37 PM
i loved my linux yellow dog, it was the primary reason i joined this website, because at the time, the other os forums here were the absolute best. and i can't thank Neosabin enough for all his knowledge he shared with me on how to get everything running great.
i still remember first meeting and gaming with him in my ps3 ut3 funhouse server, then join hax and come to find he was a mod and linux pro here. providing great instructions for me.
so, to haxnet, i take my hat off.
i still remember calling sony the day the 3.15 dns trick no longer worked, after my mind was made up to update to 3.21, i was addicted to white knight chronicles. but had to call sony to make sure my hdd wasn't gonna be formatted when/if the 3.21 update saw i had linux.
i couldn't back up my hdd at the time.
true facts about the swastika,
a few certain american indian tribes used to use a reverse pattern swastika as their decorative symbol of peace. those certain few tribes also had no decorative symbol of war at that time.
04-03-2011
07:46 PM
Sony manager at car manufacturer: My car doesn't work anymore
Car manufacturer to Sony manager: I never said you could use the car "indefinitely or for any particular period of time".... Sue me!!
Now how long would that car manufacturer keep to excist with that mentallity? Come On Sony, you can be serious about this statement
Ow and Sony? My acceptance of your ToS is NOT "indefinitely or for any particular period of time". I can play that game too
04-03-2011
09:01 PM
I have read everything on the box that it came in and nowhere does it state that you will have to do anything to play games or agree to anything in any way
There has to be some laws that they are stepping over the lines on as it does not say anything about potential removal of any operating system attributes or any functions
I wish I could have my cake and eat it too
They suck plain and simple
04-03-2011
10:15 PM
Nor does it say anywhere on the the box that it offers any other os function.
I know I was pissed when they took otherOS but for people to say it was an ADVERTISED feature... is stretching it a bit.
a few bits in industry conferences does not an advertisement make.
I mean seriously... for whatever reason they chose to include otherOS... it was abused and the door was gonna swing open and they chose to pull it because piracy was about to become otherOS' most useful function.
All I read here is a bunch of hate for a company that gave the option that no other company had given... and then took it away for the same reason no other company offers it.,
I was a first week JBer. I built my own board from a kit and I was really into the possibilities. until it was obvious that the whole shebang was primarily for piracy and very few had any drive to bring back Linux. it was made glaringly apparent by the fact that it took a few weeks for the first game ripper/loader and Moooooooooooooooonths for a linux option.
seriously why dont people sue xbox or ninty for not giving you linux..... or at least complain about it...
oh thats right because you can already pirate those and dont need a cheesy excuse., seriously how many hacks are there here that dont deal directly with piracy?
Im all for doing what you want with what you pay for... but Im sick of the hate for a company that has brought fun and entertainment for years
over a feature that was used legit by some... used to exeperiment with circumvention by a few and most likely used as an excuse by a whole lot of people who probably didnt/wouldnt own an early unit or any PS3 until they could pirate its games.
sorry if my rant is offbase here at this site... but the use of swastikas is way overboard innappropriate. no matter what its ancient meanings or uses might have been.. it is being used in this context to draw a parrallel with the National socialist movement .. hitler and everything therein. its overboard on Sonys behalf and totally disparraging to anyone who suffered under true Nazis.
04-03-2011
10:30 PM
I'm pissed at sony and not at Microsoft for the same reason I hate anyone that offers me something then yanks it away and says just kidding, Microsoft never offered it so they couldn't take it away, Sony removed a feature many of us cared about.
04-03-2011
11:24 PM
As long as OtherOS was there, hackers were attacking it...and there were never any concerns over piracy, as there wouldn't have been any way to pirate PS3 games from within linux anyway. Once OtherOS was gone, hackers started attacking every potential weakness in the PS3, releasing whatever they found so others could potentially find a way to bring linux back (and they did...eventually). Of course, that information was also used for backup managers...and there are people who use backup managers illegally...but those are all the result of the removal of OtherOS, not of OtherOS itself.
Sony is playing a neat little game with the documents...if the lawyers for the public agreed to not press charges against SCEI, then SCEA (or are they SNEA?) would just give documents that pin all the blame on SCEI, and no one could do anything. If they don't agree, then they get no documents. It seems like the claims that sony has laid out so far should make suing SCEI incredibly easy; as the Sony defense has come down to, "We were just following orders blindly"...a little like the Nuremberg trials, except the crimes are only against 10,000,000...not all humanity.
I am a bit amazed that Sony hasn't tried to claim that since "SCEA" is no longer in existence, "SNEA" is not responsible for anything that "SCEA" did. I guess saying that might hurt their case against geohot...but it is not like they are keeping any continuity between the two cases anyway. In one case SCEI is responsible for everything remotely related to the PS3, in the other case SCEA is the sole creator of the PS3 and SCEI might as well be a subsidiary of SCEA.
///edit///
You know what would be really neat? If there was some kind of a punishment for lying under oath...like if you said one thing under oath in one court room, then walked next door and said something contradictory under oath, then you spend the night in jail...since you might say that the person was "purging" themselves, you could call it "perjury". Oh, and since a corporation is considered a "person" under the law, they would also have to abide by this.
No, that is a crazy idea, no one would ever go for that...might as well have a law stating that a free exchange of ideas was not a crime (in case you are wondering, it is a clear violation of the DMCA to exchange ideas on certain subjects, even when not relating to hacking in any way).
04-04-2011
01:21 AM
04-04-2011
01:22 AM
ps3mplayer worked well for SD content.
using the spu medialib
04-04-2011
03:06 AM
04-04-2011
03:50 AM
04-04-2011
07:32 AM
You are correct, Piracy is a massive money maker for criminals, of course the PS Jailbreak creators, knew exactly that their release would open up Piracy on the PS3 in a huge level, they sold their dongle for a huge price, they profited off Piracy as did all the other dongle creators, it is inevitable when a back up method is created, Piracy is going to be rife.
04-04-2011
09:23 AM
I tried it out, it ran very poorly for most video that wasn't SD and was very beta at the time if you ask me. It was mostly due to the crippled hardware access that $ony gave the OtherOS. Like many I have come to realize that what I thought was an awesome gift to the hobbyist was nothing more than a tax write off for $ony and they never gave a #@% about me. Worse yet it seems they actually despise me and think I am a criminal for wanting to use Linux and a media player on my PS3. Sad, sad day for the consumer.
04-04-2011
09:47 AM
Sony itself were once sued over the Betamax's ability to make potentially infringing copies, although ultimately the court filed in favour of Sony due to fair use, Geohot should use this as part of his defence, having the ability to infringe on copyright in the betamax case did not necessarily equate to enabling it, the same could be argued for Geohot or anybody else hacking the PS3
04-04-2011
02:22 PM
"If yellow dog linux was endorsed by Sony, Then it would suggest that Sony did infact give us the right to install 3rd party software, I mean what use is an OS if you cant install any software on it, or even update it??
Simple logic would suggest that Sony knows any OS would need to install updates as well as other 3rd party software!"
So by saying that, does that have any legal ramifications if Sony did say that it supported YDL, which in turn would be saying they supported 3rd party. I'm terribly confused about this case it seems pretty logical to me and that's why it's making me lost. It's so simple what GeoHotz did.
Why does Sony gotta be hatin?
04-04-2011
03:41 PM
04-04-2011
04:00 PM