• 30 Day Opt Out Clause For New PSN ToS

    PS3 Hacks, PS3 Legal (Sony), PSN, Uncategorized , 24.09.2011

    The recent ToS change for the PS3, makes you waive your legal rights, has a 30 day Opt Out clause, You must send Sony a letter within 30 days of agreeing to the ToS

    Washington attorney Thomas Buscaglia, who specializes in games

    States “”This really sort of sucks because it is doubtful that any individual could afford to sue them,” explained Washington attorney Thomas Buscaglia, who specializes in games. “Not sure how enforceable it will be, but I think it it would be really cool if gamers started to circulate a form opt out rejection of these terms and mailed them in.”

    “If you do not wish to be bound by the binding arbitration and class action waiver in this Section 15,” reads the Terms of Service, “you must notify SNEI [Sony Network Entertainment] in writing within 30 days of the date that you accept this agreement.”

    “This is certainly not standard practice by any standards…in fact it may well not be enforceable,” said Buscaglia. “Time will tell on that one. The US Federal Trade Commission and various state consumer protection agencies could have a problem with it. Also, some courts might not allow it to be enforced due to existing state court precedent.”

    SOURCE

    The source also confirms , at the moment, this ToS solely applies to US and does not affect EU/Australia yet.

    I suspect they are trying to live up to their slogan, “It only does everything”…

    Now screw’s you in the a$$

    Tags: , , ,

    Discuss in Forums (25)


  • 25 Comments

    1. GregoryRasputin
      09-24-2011
      08:05 AM
      1

      I front paged it to make people aware that they have a choice to opt out, i they wanted to, also that "It does everything" slogan is no longer used, Sony has a new one

    2. big_russ
      09-24-2011
      08:12 AM
      2

      yeah sony's new slogan is (f**k you if you sign this).

    3. hanzoverfist
      09-24-2011
      08:43 AM
      3

      Sony is just trying to get a list of those $ony haters, I don't think anyone else would bother to file for the opt out clause.

      it takes 45 seconds to scroll down to section 15, it takes 1min30 seconds the whole document, who else but a sony hater would bother to read all that.

    4. GregoryRasputin
      09-24-2011
      08:46 AM
      4

      Originally Posted by hanzoverfist View Post
      Sony is just trying to get a list of those $ony haters, I don't think anyone else would bother to file for the opt out clause.

      it takes 45 seconds to scroll down to section 15, it takes 1min30 seconds the whole document, who else but a sony hater would bother to read all that.

      Most of us don't hate, Sony and we have read it.

    5. fsdfgasgfisd
      09-24-2011
      09:14 AM
      5

      I will just get my 4 year old to accept the ToS.

    6. flt4478
      09-24-2011
      09:29 AM
      6

      i about **** my pants laughing .

      it does everything now it screws you in the asss lmfao omg that was hilarious
      sony is pretty ruthless

    7. hanzoverfist
      09-24-2011
      09:31 AM
      7

      Originally Posted by GregoryRasputin View Post
      Most of us don't hate.
      yes hate is a quick and dirty word , but I just don't know what else to label it.

    8. SuperDre
      09-24-2011
      10:30 AM
      8

      It will never reach the EU as it goes against our laws, and ToS is never above the law. So even if they add it, it's useless..

    9. pepethedon
      09-24-2011
      11:09 AM
      9

      That's HILARIOUS.

      "You have 30 days to take back your $oul, otherwise YOUR A$$ IS OURS!!! Bwahahahah" *giant, $ony crab voice*

    10. bigo93
      09-24-2011
      11:35 AM
      10

      MY @$$!!!


      Don't forget though, that you will have to write in every time $ony release a new firmware. By agreeing to the TOS, even if the wording hasnt changed, implies it is a new contract, meaning you sign into the arbitration again therefore having to send another letter to opt out of it!

    11. jimmyemunoz
      09-24-2011
      11:48 AM
      11

      If I opt out does that mean I own my games AND hardware now????

    12. jc_gargma
      09-24-2011
      12:00 PM
      12

      Originally Posted by jimmyemunoz View Post
      If I opt out does that mean I own my games AND hardware now????
      No. It only means that if you take Sony to court, you can do so with hundred or thousands of other in unison to avoid getting dealt with singly, which would bankrupt you, causing you to lose, even if you would likely win in the end.
      This is why Sony (and any other company) wants mandatory arbitration, and exactly why Class-Action lawsuits exist. To allow people a chance to succeed against Companies who would use their resources against a single person to simply drag it out until they can't afford to continue.
      Originally Posted by bigo93 View Post
      Don't forget though, that you will have to write in every time $ony release a new firmware. By agreeing to the TOS, even if the wording hasnt changed, implies it is a new contract, meaning you sign into the arbitration again therefore having to send another letter to opt out of it!
      Quite. And also as Sony has clauses that state the ToS remains binding through termination, if you sign #2 and reject by mail #3, you are still unable to sue.

    13. Mystt
      09-24-2011
      12:09 PM
      13

      Technically you have had 30 days from the time the new ToS was posted on PSN to accept. That was what around the 15th - 17th? So even less now. Also I surprised no one has looked into if you get banned from PSN for not agreeing to which I assume yes considering they don't let you sign in.

    14. Ozz
      09-24-2011
      12:19 PM
      14

      They would be smarter adding this to the games. CFW users won't have to agree to a TOS right? Could the TOS be removed from CFW?
      You wouldn't be able to go on PSN ever again, I don't think it gonna happen anyway.

    15. jc_gargma
      09-24-2011
      12:31 PM
      15

      Originally Posted by Ozz View Post
      They would be smarter adding this to the games. CFW users won't have to agree to a TOS right? Could the TOS be removed from CFW?
      You wouldn't be able to go on PSN ever again, I don't think it gonna happen anyway.
      They do have it in the games, as games force OFW patches on you, thus, making you sign it.

    16. stuck?
      09-24-2011
      12:59 PM
      16

      Why does everybody forget about Canada?

      How about us, apply there? Not that I have even gone online for many mooons :P

    17. bigo93
      09-24-2011
      01:10 PM
      17

      Or you can accept then ask Sony to prove it was actually you who clicked the agree button. All Sony have is that someone using your account agreed to the TOS, nothing really links it to you, even if you are the owner of the account. Technically sony would have no proof whatsoever, but sine they are a big corporation, many judges end up siding with them rather than the individual, even if the individual is innocent.

    18. jc_gargma
      09-24-2011
      01:19 PM
      18

      Originally Posted by stuck? View Post
      Why does everybody forget about Canada?

      How about us, apply there? Not that I have even gone online for many mooons :P
      It applies the same as to any American. Since Sony is granted a location of their choosing for court, and precedent on such inter-nation tribunals is already in place, you would simply be sent to California (at your expense, of course) to sue or defend against Sony until they bankrupt you.
      Which is quite a joke, as if I were to choose a Canadian court, Sony wouldn't be allowed to stall, and I wouldn't go broke trying to fight them.
      There is too many questionable tactics allowed in American courts, its no wonder people doubt that there is any legal protection for peasants.

    19. STLcardsWS
      09-24-2011
      04:25 PM
      19

      Technically you have had 30 days from the time the new ToS was posted on PSN to accept. That was what around the 15th - 17th? So even less now. Also I surprised no one has looked into if you get banned from PSN for not agreeing to which I assume yes considering they don't let you sign in.
      It is 30 days AFTER you accept, The 30 days clause is within the agreement. So clause isn't valid until you agree..

      Sony added this hidden clause so they could try and sell to the courts they were being fair in providing an opt out.. but an HONEST judge wouldn't stand by this...

    20. Chichan69
      09-24-2011
      04:55 PM
      20

      Wow, thanks for the update. I think this is EXTREMELY IMPORTANT and everyone OPT OUT good luck guys.

    21. Mystt
      09-24-2011
      10:19 PM
      21

      Why does everybody forget about Canada?

      How about us, apply there? Not that I have even gone online for many mooons :P
      I have answered this the first ToS update was mentioned; in Canada the Ministry of Consumer Services website states that any corporation who tries to add a clause of binding arbitration even with consumer acceptance will be thrown out of court. I expect more details in about 6 weeks via email from the Ministry. Any Canadians that wish to question Sony or EA takes on binding arbitration can send an email to them by visiting their website. Tho this may defer from province to province:

      Ministry of Consumer Services

      It is 30 days AFTER you accept, The 30 days clause is within the agreement. So clause isn't valid until you agree..

      Sony added this hidden clause so they could try and sell to the courts they were being fair in providing an opt out.. but an HONEST judge wouldn't stand by this...
      Sweet, ty for confirming.

    22. plex
      09-24-2011
      10:29 PM
      22

      Honestly, I cant see anyone actually being bothered to write in a opt-out letter. 200K members on this forum A decent amount of % would be US citizens and how many of that % would actually do anything about it?

      I know for sure I wouldn't.

      No. It only means that if you take Sony to court, you can do so with hundred or thousands of other in unison to avoid getting dealt with singly, which would bankrupt you, causing you to lose, even if you would likely win in the end.
      This is why Sony (and any other company) wants mandatory arbitration, and exactly why Class-Action lawsuits exist. To allow people a chance to succeed against Companies who would use their resources against a single person to simply drag it out until they can't afford to continue.

      Read more: http://www.ps3hax.net/newreply.php?d...#ixzz1YvnfD3C4
      And yet if you do decide to take sony to court - It would be you who would have to gather other people to go againts sony. Sony will get around it though.

      Sony is full of it. And it's never ending.

    23. STLcardsWS
      09-24-2011
      10:32 PM
      23

      Its only never ending because people support them over their own rights...

    24. plex
      09-24-2011
      10:40 PM
      24

      Originally Posted by STLcardsWS View Post
      Its only never ending because people support them over their own rights...
      Looking at what's been happening in the pass with previous individuals who have stood up againts sony, The price on what rights US Citizens have againts corporations like sony seems to be very expensive. What rights do you have unless your efforts in sueing only comes down to standing away from the scene because whoever has the most money seems to be always right.

      Who's feeling lucky enough to win lotto, Anyone?

    25. SuperDre
      09-24-2011
      11:30 PM
      25

      Originally Posted by Ozz View Post
      They would be smarter adding this to the games. CFW users won't have to agree to a TOS right? Could the TOS be removed from CFW?
      You wouldn't be able to go on PSN ever again, I don't think it gonna happen anyway.
      the TOS is for PSN, not for the FW itself..