• PS3 Hacks , 23.02.2013

    We all know that piracy goes with games consoles, smart hackers always manage to somehow circumvent the security of games, Ps3 games for example, were being dumped long before the PS3 was hacked.
    Well it seems Sony wants to get rid of Piracy once and for all as they have filed a new Patent that will detect pirated games, here is a quote from the Source:

     photo Capture-172_zps896c511b.png

    FIELD
    The present disclosure relates generally to piracy detection, and more particularly, to systems and methods for measuring and employing benchmarks for legitimate duplication validation.

    BACKGROUND
    In recent years, computing devices have developed universal appeal as a primary source of information, entertainment and communication. End-user products integrating these devices, such as televisions, DVD players, game consoles, computers and the like, are created, changed and refined to facilitate consumer access to digital content of all sizes and types. Thus, consumers are often able to acquire large amounts of digital content, such as games, television shows, movies, applications, etc., with a single click of a button. Such digital content is often made available for a premium by device manufacturers and third party developers, who depend on consumer licenses of their content to recoup their research and development costs. These licenses allow the consumer to use and enjoy the content without infringing on the intellectual property rights of the manufacturers or developers.

    Unfortunately, as technology rapidly progresses and content becomes more widely available and accessible, consumers have turned to piracy to illegally acquire certain digital content, and in some cases, entire libraries of content. Digital rights management (DRM) software and tamper-resistant hardware are employed by manufacturers to discourage illegal acquisitions. However, pirates are often able to reverse engineer such attempts and circumvent the protection entirely.

    SUMMARY
    Thus, there is a continuous and ongoing need for novel and improved digital rights management schemes that provide additional layers of protection against piracy. Embodiments of the invention meet this need and others by providing a system and method for measuring and employing benchmarks for legitimate duplication validation.

    According to an embodiment of the invention, a method for validating legitimate media products associated with a legitimate media type is described. The method comprises loading a first media product having a first media type on a computing device, measuring a first load time for the first media product on the computing device, establishing a threshold range of acceptable first load times using a second load time for the legitimate media type associated with the legitimate media products, and determining whether the first load time is within the threshold range.

    A system for effecting this method is also described herein according to an embodiment of the invention. For example, a system for validating legitimate media products associated with a legitimate media type is described. The system comprises a computing device that loads a first media product having a first media type and that measures a first load time for the first media product, a processor that calculates a second load time for the legitimate media type, establishes a threshold range of acceptable first load times using the second load time, and determines whether the first load time is within the threshold range, and a memory coupled to the processor.

    You can view the full patent at the source:
    BENCHMARK MEASUREMENT FOR LEGITIMATE DUPLICATION VALIDATION
    Via

    Or you can download the PDF here.

    Discuss in Forums (131)


  • 131 Comments

    1. mckenziesdaddy
      02-23-2013
      03:56 PM
      1

      Originally Posted by GregoryRasputin
      We all know that piracy goes with games consoles, smart hackers always manage to somehow circumvent ... [Read More]
      Damn, Maybe an ODD emulator? But other wise I do not see backups running on external after this generation. So the hardcore pirates will move back to PC and full the fire even more PC gamers do not pay for content.

    2. DebugBrain
      02-23-2013
      04:07 PM
      2

      Originally Posted by mckenziesdaddy
      Damn, Maybe an ODD emulator? But other wise I do not see backups running on external after this generation. So the hardcore pirates will move back to PC and full the fire even more PC gamers do not pay for content.
      I also thought that, I think that a control system such as that one day will be bypassed.

    3. Priest282
      02-23-2013
      04:20 PM
      3

      Surely this is relatively easy to trick?
      If backup manager is produced, insert delay code after initiation of timing.
      Something like that, just seems like a lame way of checking for piracy to me, of course it depends on the sophistication of the checks, multiple checks between files etc.
      Lots of DRM checks on the Crysis 3 PC release, clever, inserts annoying bugs like no ammo for rifle and unbeatable boss. I think the best way to fight piracy from a devs point of view is to implement these random ones all throughout the code in diff games to break diff parts of the game. One security system, ie the firmware is just one line of defense, hope not tho obviously!

    4. FirebirdTA01
      02-23-2013
      04:44 PM
      4

      ... If we can spoof everything else, why couldn't we just poke the memory live where it stores the 'loading time'? That way, we could pass the timing check and not have to do the "additional" checks... That's for another dev and another day I suppose.

    5. Dragoon512
      02-23-2013
      04:49 PM
      5

      Simple way to circumvent this: limit the media (ISOs via ODD?) reading speed to the threshold. Or crack the underlying OS to always pass the check. You can't really do such protection for content on HDD (What if someone replaces their HDD for a faster one? You can do this in PS3, and if they would want to do this for next generation, they would have to block this. Also HDDs often have varying read speeds due to fragmentation, sometimes bad sectors won't screw up the game but slow down the loading process, and so on...), only for optical media.

    6. butnut
      02-23-2013
      05:02 PM
      6

      So if all checks fail and the user gets blocked, what is it the the user is being blocked from?

    7. snrrr
      02-23-2013
      05:07 PM
      7

      Took em ages to do the ps3
      But them happy hackers will find a way
      Don't give out too many ideas as Sony & co are taking notes
      The more we give an idea how to get round something a light bulb go,s on in a boffins head and re writes the final release

    8. calo
      02-23-2013
      05:12 PM
      8

      Is Game Piracy A Thing Of The Past ?
      no its not, you can't have one without the other.

    9. bubbleboy
      02-23-2013
      05:12 PM
      9

      doesn't xbox live employ this very method to ban modded drive consoles?

    10. Zorlac79
      02-23-2013
      05:18 PM
      10

      XBOX did, and it worked.... But it has since been defeated. The last worry for an xbox live ban was 4 years ago.

      Every time something new is implimented, a new work around will be made. The game of cat and mouse started long long before video games and will last long after!

    11. kristijan1001
      02-23-2013
      05:19 PM
      11

      For Me This Looks Stupid,WE WILL SPOOF IT- Everything Has His Own Weak Point,We Just Need Developers That Have Knowledge,Hackers,Not An Empty Scene Like The PS3 One,we Just Have Rogero,Rebug...Some Other That Do Developing In Apps..But No In To Hack Things We Need Someone Like "The Three Musketeers"-The Ones Who Leaked The Keys...For Years We Cant Leak The Keys..With Rogero And Rebug Beside...Some Did But They Make Profit From It That's Why Those Guys Released The Keys THey Didnt Want DRAMA..

    12. donglehater
      02-23-2013
      05:21 PM
      12

      Game producers have forever sought out a way to prevent pirates from obtaining their warez and they sometimes are able to briefly do just that, but every new method is eventually circumvented by one means or another. I doubt this methodology will change anything in the long run.

    13. Kakkoii
      02-23-2013
      05:23 PM
      13

      What if you have a highly scratched game disc that requires many passes over an area for the data to be read properly at times? The read speed goes down slightly, could this not result in people being blocked/banned due to having a scratched disc?

    14. kary
      02-23-2013
      05:39 PM
      14

      If you can build it, you can hack it. It's not rocket science. Just a bit of time, patience and knowledge.

      The patent is nothing more than a idea on how they think they could get rid of piracy. They know it's impossible, but will still put this thing out to create ways of stopping the average joe from being able to do it.

      Trust me, there's enough people out there, that when put up to the challenge can hack any system wide open. The hackers out there, are far smarter than the guys working at Sony.

    15. hornet286
      02-23-2013
      05:45 PM
      15

      So does that mean that if the ps3 disc has dust or something on it and it fails to reload the data within that given moment, it will block the user? If I understood that correctly, then I don't see that going over well.

    16. Pa|2abola
      02-23-2013
      05:54 PM
      16

      Originally Posted by kary
      If you can build it, you can hack it. It's not rocket science. Just a bit of time, patience and knowledge.

      The patent is nothing more than a idea on how they think they could get rid of piracy. They know it's impossible, but will still put this thing out to create ways of stopping the average joe from being able to do it.

      Trust me, there's enough people out there, that when put up to the challenge can hack any system wide open. The hackers out there, are far smarter than the guys working at Sony.
      You seem to have written my reply for me +1.

    17. p666
      02-23-2013
      06:13 PM
      17

      So they ensure the game is running nice and slowly off external media, when if it is pirated, it will run so much better and faster on the users' hdd.....

    18. ZOMBIEKILLAH
      02-23-2013
      06:29 PM
      18

      This is the exact reason why i do not buy any Sony products anymore. I am not for getting things free & i have supported them greed scum Sony for 30+ years. After seeing how they pressured us PS3 owners who want are console to be free like PC = NO Cinavia infected firmware, which is so damn annoying it is ridiculous. Whoever puts that kind of protection on there DVD players/consoles do not deserve customers or any income for infected products like this. It defeats/destroys, the real potential & purpose of being the ultimate media player. Are they really that stupid to think people are going to watch home made movies of there family every day on a PS3 ?

      They made the PS3 to play media/games/music,etc Smart people who buy DVDs, music, games, rip there CDs/DVDs/Games , to convert them to there preferred extension ,to watch/play them how they want to in the comfort of there own home & take control of there paid content. This is how it is supposed to be = NO DRM. This is called being happy, stress free entertainment "NO ROADBLOCKS" on your device ! If there is any then find a device that does not have them ,like i did for watching my own digital MKV movies.

      Having a real device to play your media & being able to move your data to any device is how everything should be. Not locked down with DRM tied to a device or DISC ! Selling customers DRM infected stuff & limiting us after purchase is scamming us & selling us spyware infected products with limited capabilities.

      People enjoy freedom & this is how it will always be & this is why DRM will always be cracked ! I am so tired of this copyright crap from these people & everything else like this. They do not deserve any revenue ,from customers at all when all they do is try & control what you do with your products after you buy them. I am so glad i am way past the age to care being i have got around everything that has DRM so far . I have enough DRM free media & more to enjoy for the rest of my life.

      I do feel sorry for the people who continue to make these people RICH & keep them in business. By doing so you will never be free & always be under new ridiculous LAWS/DRM/RULES. Looking over your shoulder, just because you want to share something that you have paid in full for with friend/s ,especially online. This copyright troll talk & control is so overboard it is sickening what i read everyday about what is going on.

      DRM infected will be so limited one day ,it is going to severely backfire on corporations like Sony & others alike who go down this path.There revenue/ income will backfire & trying to recover will "deplete" there resources do to there obsession/greed of control.

      Greedy MPAA/RIAA/MIFAA & corporations like Sony who want to keep you in the 1970/80s market ERA will fail ,trying to keep people buying DVDs & CDs with devices that are limited beyond your imagination. The people will finally wake up as the truth is relieved "P2P" is not hurting these rich bastards.

      I am sad i will probably not be here to see it happen to them. If people like myself just wake up & do not buy any products that are infected with DRM or have DRM that you can not remove. Boycott these type of products / corporations who sell this type of stuff ,who limit you as you pay out of your ass for what they try to sell you.

      Take DRM & Boycott serious , or you people will never be free from control/DRM. I get carried away but ,this never ending joke of control is just tiring .These scum just never give it up .They will never win ,90% of everything with protection has been defeated in the digital world. They are to dumb to give it up.. They start a war they can not win, so they make up there own rules & laws & try to police are internet they do not even own.

      We the the people keep ISPs in business ,not them .We if anyone own the internet not them copyright trolls or Sony, who do not care about destroying the internet as we know it. They only care to make new laws to sue people for there failures of products they do not sell ! It is obvious people want to do more & have freedom with what they own & these scum do not want you to have full free access ,so you can come back again/again & give them more money .

    19. JohnnyCage2008
      02-23-2013
      06:31 PM
      19

      Piracy will still be there when gaming is dead.

    20. mrc1978
      02-23-2013
      06:34 PM
      20

      ^^ this guy knows his shit, nice rant m8

      EDIT.... Bloody sniped. [MENTION=163760]ZOMBIEKILLAH[/MENTION], That was meant for you.

    21. republicano
      02-23-2013
      06:42 PM
      21

      time for them to ruin the experience to combat privacy,how much would you tolerate before you give up?, all these security measures and not enough news about providing a better experience for the consumer gives them a bad image,

      spyware with a different name, everyone shouldn't lose out due to that small group.

    22. General Plot
      02-23-2013
      07:41 PM
      22

      The aspect not even being considered is that this is assumed load times from optical media. But what about full games from PSN? Obviously all that data is saved on the hard drive, meaning this system has no effect on those types of games (ie: reactpsn). Not to mention that if you were to gain kernel mode access, then you can simply disable these checks. And what if the lens starts struggling to read data (smudges on disc, lens is dirty, etc..), then that would mean a legitimate disc could fail this check.

    23. klbarnes1
      02-23-2013
      08:33 PM
      23

      I'm so happy I sold both of my PS3's over 2 years ago. My 360 is the best, I don't miss the ps3 at all. I will never buy another Sony product again! I urge you all to do the same! They are SCUM!

    24. smf
      02-23-2013
      08:56 PM
      24

      Originally Posted by klbarnes1
      I'm so happy I sold both of my PS3's over 2 years ago. My 360 is the best, I don't miss the ps3 at all. I will never buy another Sony product again! I urge you all to do the same! They are SCUM!
      While I respect your right to prefer 360 over PS3, this is no difference to what Microsoft tried to do with xbox live bans. We don't even know if Sony will implement what they have patented. The only point in patenting something like this is to prevent someone else from implementing it, unless they pay you money. They could implement it without patenting it.

      I was tempted to get a 360 because of the Kinect, but other than that I don't see any reason to get one. But each to their own. I don't know why you feel the need to persuade others to hate Sony.

    25. lilkuz2005
      02-23-2013
      09:08 PM
      25

      i think im finished with game consoles, im going PC only from now on, it was fun while it lasted

    26. Mack702
      02-23-2013
      09:13 PM
      26

      Piracy will never end it's obvious , if something is meant to be hacked ... It's meant to be hacked.

    27. ttesterzz
      02-23-2013
      11:23 PM
      27

      that ALMOST like saying there will be no more dark, only light. neither can exist without the other as we know it.. logically but who knows!!

    28. apexcore
      02-23-2013
      11:48 PM
      28

      It really depends on how the PS4 will be cracked. If it's something like the CFW or RGH hack on the 360, this check can easily be patched. If it's a disc drive based hack, then I'm guessint some sort of ODE with need to mimick the behavior of a real disc. If it's a CFW for the BD-Drive, then maybe a certain brand of disc and burner combination will be able to mimick the characteristic of a real disc. There are probably 10 other potential way to get around it. But we'll have to wait till the PS4 is released first.

    29. elunesgrace
      02-24-2013
      01:11 AM
      29

      For every measure there is a countermeasure.

      As a pentester once told me, it's not about whether it can be hacked or not, its about whether or not it's worth putting in the time and effort to do it.

    30. TitaniumL
      02-24-2013
      01:59 AM
      30

      More of a reason for devs to challenge this and crack it wide open.

      It's all about the challenge

    31. fromzero
      02-24-2013
      02:22 AM
      31

      Originally Posted by Kakkoii
      What if you have a highly scratched game disc that requires many passes over an area for the data to be read properly at times? The read speed goes down slightly, could this not result in people being blocked/banned due to having a scratched disc?
      My thoughts exactly. I'm not worried because I don't need a ps4. I have only beaten a hand full of ps3 games and still have too many to get around to. I could be content playing Mike Tyson's Punchout, Super Mario World, Shinobi 3, Shenmue 1 & 2, Halo 2/3, The King Of Fighters 2003, Final Fantasy 6, Soul Calibur 2, Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 2x, God Of War 1-3, Uncharted 1-3 & Castlevania: LOS for the rest of my life and not need much else. In fact if all I had was a dreamcast & xbox 1 with xbmc I could be content.

    32. prido
      02-24-2013
      02:53 AM
      32

      Load time isn't really a good way to check for piracy since install option reduces load times in games .This protection is kind of stupid actually but its general concept is good.

    33. havok7
      02-24-2013
      03:02 AM
      33

      the thing is if there is something for free on the net i will always get it no matter what,i like free sh1t,and yes piracy will never be thing of the past as long the net exist the piracy will exist as well

    34. JU57FL1P
      02-24-2013
      03:16 AM
      34

      No matter what Sony does, there is ALWAYS a way to hack things! ALWAYS!

    35. Gabriel123
      02-24-2013
      03:19 AM
      35

      Originally Posted by ZOMBIEKILLAH
      This is the exact reason why i do not buy any Sony products anymore. I am not for getting things free & i have supported them greed scum Sony for 30+ years. After seeing how they pressured us PS3 owners who want are console to be free like PC = NO Cinavia infected firmware, which is so damn annoying it is ridiculous. Whoever puts that kind of protection on there DVD players/consoles do not deserve customers or any income for infected products like this. It defeats/destroys, the real potential & purpose of being the ultimate media player. Are they really that stupid to think people are going to watch home made movies of there family every day on a PS3 ?

      They made the PS3 to play media/games/music,etc Smart people who buy DVDs, music, games, rip there CDs/DVDs/Games , to convert them to there preferred extension ,to watch/play them how they want to in the comfort of there own home & take control of there paid content. This is how it is supposed to be = NO DRM. This is called being happy, stress free entertainment "NO ROADBLOCKS" on your device ! If there is any then find a device that does not have them ,like i did for watching my own digital MKV movies.

      Having a real device to play your media & being able to move your data to any device is how everything should be. Not locked down with DRM tied to a device or DISC ! Selling customers DRM infected stuff & limiting us after purchase is scamming us & selling us spyware infected products with limited capabilities.

      People enjoy freedom & this is how it will always be & this is why DRM will always be cracked ! I am so tired of this copyright crap from these people & everything else like this. They do not deserve any revenue ,from customers at all when all they do is try & control what you do with your products after you buy them. I am so glad i am way past the age to care being i have got around everything that has DRM so far . I have enough DRM free media & more to enjoy for the rest of my life.

      I do feel sorry for the people who continue to make these people RICH & keep them in business. By doing so you will never be free & always be under new ridiculous LAWS/DRM/RULES. Looking over your shoulder, just because you want to share something that you have paid in full for with friend/s ,especially online. This copyright troll talk & control is so overboard it is sickening what i read everyday about what is going on.

      DRM infected will be so limited one day ,it is going to severely backfire on corporations like Sony & others alike who go down this path.There revenue/ income will backfire & trying to recover will "deplete" there resources do to there obsession/greed of control.

      Greedy MPAA/RIAA/MIFAA & corporations like Sony who want to keep you in the 1970/80s market ERA will fail ,trying to keep people buying DVDs & CDs with devices that are limited beyond your imagination. The people will finally wake up as the truth is relieved "P2P" is not hurting these rich bastards.

      I am sad i will probably not be here to see it happen to them. If people like myself just wake up & do not buy any products that are infected with DRM or have DRM that you can not remove. Boycott these type of products / corporations who sell this type of stuff ,who limit you as you pay out of your ass for what they try to sell you.

      Take DRM & Boycott serious , or you people will never be free from control/DRM. I get carried away but ,this never ending joke of control is just tiring .These scum just never give it up .They will never win ,90% of everything with protection has been defeated in the digital world. They are to dumb to give it up.. They start a war they can not win, so they make up there own rules & laws & try to police are internet they do not even own.

      We the the people keep ISPs in business ,not them .We if anyone own the internet not them copyright trolls or Sony, who do not care about destroying the internet as we know it. They only care to make new laws to sue people for there failures of products they do not sell ! It is obvious people want to do more & have freedom with what they own & these scum do not want you to have full free access ,so you can come back again/again & give them more money .

      You sure your not from anonymous??? Jk you know your **** bro

    36. StoneAngel
      02-24-2013
      03:29 AM
      36

      Great hohoho now all will get f*cked up like us with the 3/4k console. Then i wanna see them how they will act :P

    37. malex
      02-24-2013
      03:38 AM
      37

      Originally Posted by republicano
      time for them to ruin the experience to combat privacy...
      My biggest gripe with this battle against piracy nonsense. The day I see a pirate crying over any of these antipiracy measures I'll chew my socks. In the end the only ones that get screwed are the actual paying customers who have to deal with the annoyances, while the pirates need only wait a few weeks to bypass stuff. There's a lot of people that despite buying PC games will still use cracks to defeat DRM.

      Originally Posted by smf
      ...I don't know why you feel the need to persuade others to hate Sony.
      = OtherOS + what they did to Graf

      Sony are f*cktards, and while all these companies are a-holes in their own right, Sony has demonstrated that they are king of the hill when it comes to being world class ungrateful motherf*ckers.

      If these ******bags want to fight piracy they should just do the easiest thing they can... drop the ridiculous price of games, and start caring more about your damn paying customers than you do about the pirates... oh and I would appreciate it if they stopped selling me half the game and then charging me to unlock the other half that is locked on my disc.

    38. advocatusdiaboli
      02-24-2013
      04:42 AM
      38

      Piracy was never a problem, sober pricing on the other hand... That is something they should look into.

      Look at Adobe for example, you can have their entire CS for USD 30 a month or whatever that subscription is ...

      Result?

      No piracy, turnover skyrockets.

      On the contrary I really do hope that pricing under the influence is A Thing Of The Past?

    39. lonewolf88
      02-24-2013
      05:51 AM
      39

      I think most pirates are people who live in places where games/media and consoles etc are prohibitively expensive, or are people with low income trying there best to give their kids what they want, and the only way they can afford to is buy getting a used (hacked) system and copied games, victims of circumstance if you will.

      What im saying is, someone who is a pirate will most likely never buy retail games so Sony, MS etc are not missing out on as many sales as they think.

      This all just my own opion of course

    40. richardrpg
      02-24-2013
      05:59 AM
      40

      Originally Posted by lonewolf88
      I think most pirates are people who live in places where games/media and consoles etc are prohibitively expensive, or are people with low income trying there best to give their kids what they want, and the only way they can afford to is buy getting a used (hacked) system and copied games, victims of circumstance if you will.

      What im saying is, someone who is a pirate will most likely never buy retail games so Sony, MS etc are not missing out on as many sales as they think.

      This all just my own opion of course
      Well said, now only if Sony etc Can actually understand a logical explanation of what piracy actually entails, I'm not holding my breath though.

    41. smf
      02-24-2013
      06:00 AM
      41

      Originally Posted by ZOMBIEKILLAH
      Smart people who buy DVDs, music, games, rip there CDs/DVDs/Games , to convert them to there preferred extension ,to watch/play them how they want to in the comfort of there own home & take control of there paid content. This is how it is supposed to be = NO DRM.
      It's how you want it, but you have no right to demand it.

      Smart people hack their PS3 to remove cinavia and don't ***** on message boards about it.

    42. eiamhere69
      02-24-2013
      06:03 AM
      42

      Every system brings a new generation, and with this I mean a new generation of talent. Whilst we will always have Veteran hacker in the background, new talent and ideas come to the fold constantly.

      They can have very advanced techniques, but they WILL always be defeated. We may approach a day soon, when hackers withhold techniques from the masses, as has been experienced lately, to prevent the culture that seems to be growing through the online generation. ie. free everything on tap, just a keystroke away.

      Piracy has always been, and always will be present, but it should not be in the state it has been. Whilst the corporations will have you believe that piracy prevents the sustainability of the market, which is clearly bull, allowed to continue on it's trajectory, it eventually co̶u̶l̶d̶ have. (I'm talking about the eventuality of even grandparents acquiring free everything)

      There has to be balance, and the scale of the market has to cover this. ie. the many must cover the cost of the few. These advanced systems are mainly as advanced as they are to create advanced algorithms and systems to make so many hoops to jump through that is as difficult as possible. But as has been proven, the hackers will always prevail. We just may see less evidence of this in future.

    43. LoverboySimer
      02-24-2013
      06:31 AM
      43

      better send a police officer with every console...
      n if the police is Ladies, i swear i will never pirate....

    44. ZOMBIEKILLAH
      02-24-2013
      07:09 AM
      44

      Originally Posted by smf
      It's how you want it, but you have no right to demand it.

      Smart people hack their PS3 to remove cinavia and don't ***** on message boards about it.

      Who said that i am demanding anything ? On that note ,you like buying DISC based movies, games, music, that limits you from copying the media to multiple device you own & have to carry a book/suitcase of discs around. Then so enjoy your infected products. I will say it in simple words, you pay for it you own it. They will not buy the product back from you, nor are you paying a rental fee. Guess what ? We own it, that is the bottom line. We do what we want. Nobody will stop me/us who choose to do more with are media.

      It is not how i want it, it is how 50% of the world wants it. I just have the balls to speak out against them & restrictions ,since i am one of many who make them rich ! To think about it ,i do have the right to speak my mind or even demand it as a customer who increases there revenue. If they want to sell me limited products that can do so much more? Then i say FU to the sellers of those products. I find myself a better product which does not cause grief to me as a customer, by silencing my audio of my movies, just because i want to watch my movies on a device that can hold all my media. I enjoy having my own type of NETFIX collection/movie covers .I am proud to purchase & own a product that allows me to stream my media with no interference. I paid for it ,so i will stream the crap out of them all day long in digital form ripped by yours truly.

      So you want to obey & bow down to these scum?

      They do not want you to copy to any device .
      They want you to buy multiple copies.
      They want to sell you another copy if you break the first.
      They want to sell you services like NETFLIX & others alike, while you pay to watch movies at your finger tips. Which we can do this in are own home with the movies we buy!
      They want to re sell you the same old products/games on a new console.
      Blah ,Blah , Blah ..

      It is ok, if you want to be one of the suckers in the bunch. Go ahead be my guest, they love people who do not speak out against them & stay silent while they rule over you like sheep. I am not one to keep my mouth shut , or stand there & not fight when i see someone wants to hurt me, or to follow people who try to control me & the world.

      The last thing i will do is say "YES MASTER" to any controlling corporation. They who sell products that interrupt my entertainment ,will not fill there pockets with my money. When they clearly know they can sell a better product ,that is not infected & allow you to watch or play games the way you want to. As a veteran customer who has supported for them for decades, i have every right to speak my mind.

      Nobody demanded nothing here or in my post. It is simple ,if there is something in a product that will interfere with your experience .Then buy the products that do not interfere with your digital experience. The sellers of products who gives you freedom, will be the ones who win in the future, not the products with spyware / firmware infection.

    45. stevorkz
      02-24-2013
      07:40 AM
      45

      Sony sony sony. Will you ever learn?

      Firstly, the more they show off with a possible "end to piracy", believe me...that just excites hackers. It excites them very very much because thats exactly what hackers want. A challenge.

      Secondly, arent they bored of this game? Are they so naive as to think they can end piracy?

      Bottom line and most important: As long as sony/microsoft/nintendo are selling consoles that we can buy and take home, free to open up and learn what we want from it, all their efforts will always be obscurity, not security. End of story.

    46. smf
      02-24-2013
      08:02 AM
      46

      Originally Posted by ZOMBIEKILLAH
      Who said that i am demanding anything ?
      You did "This is how it is supposed to be = NO DRM."

      Originally Posted by ZOMBIEKILLAH
      Guess what ? We own it, that is the bottom line. We do what we want. Nobody will stop me/us who choose to do more with are media.
      You can do what you want with it, snap it in half or use it as a drinks coaster and nobody will care. However you don't own the copyright on it, so there are some things you can't do. The DMCA/EUCD also makes it illegal to circumvent DRM.

      Originally Posted by ZOMBIEKILLAH
      It is not how i want it, it is how 50% of the world wants it. I just have the balls to speak out against them & restrictions
      I don't know why you'd expect them to make piracy easy for you. Some people will always pirate and never buy something, but some people will only pirate if it's easy. Their job is to make as many people buy it.

      You might claim that you buy everything that you rip, but without DRM then they can't know that.

      It's like paying for your house to be made secure, but in case you lock yourself out you leave a key under the doormat. You can't know that only honest people will use the key, making your house secure was pointless.

      If you hack your PS3 then there are no restrictions. Just don't expect Sony to bask in your greatness, they'll carry on doing their job.

      cinavia is now mandatory on bluray players, so I'd expect it to be included on the next xbox too.

      Originally Posted by stevorkz
      As long as sony/microsoft/nintendo are selling consoles that we can buy and take home, free to open up and learn what we want from it, all their efforts will always be obscurity, not security. End of story.
      No there is plenty of scope for them to secure their next consoles. Nintendo secured the DSi & 3DS quite well, DSi was open to a save game exploit that they fixed in later firmware revisions & 3DS mode has never been exploited. WiiU mode is not exploited yet.

      The PS3 had security and some obscurity as a backup, which was useful for Sony as they made a mistake on the security. The mistake took a while to find because of the obscurity, so it did serve a purpose. The super slim is back to being secure again at the moment, so there is no reason that the PS4 can't be made secure if they have learnt from their mistakes.

      I think it's safe to assume that the next xbox & PS4 processor isn't going to be as easy to run code on as the processor in your PC, even though it's made by AMD. There are plenty of examples across the Wii, PS3 & 360 for them to learn how much protection they need. The earlier a console is hacked, the more they learn before the next console comes out.

    47. BobbyBangin
      02-24-2013
      09:18 AM
      47

      Rest assured, somebody will find a way to play pirated games and charge people for it. For me, this is just another reason to skip out on $ony this gen...which is odd because I'm not even interested in pirating games. Sure I've got some pirated but I've been spending more time playing games that I actually paid for. Those are the ones that are worth while.

    48. smf
      02-24-2013
      09:32 AM
      48

      Originally Posted by BobbyBangin
      Rest assured, somebody will find a way to play pirated games and charge people for it. For me, this is just another reason to skip out on $ony this gen...which is odd because I'm not even interested in pirating games.
      I don't think we'll see the current situation with the Wii & PS3 carry on over into the next generation. Drive emulators are going to be the interesting thing to watch, but they will be expensive and the manufacturers can easily produce new models that will stop them working.

    49. bubbleboy
      02-24-2013
      10:03 AM
      49

      I hope Sony make two BIG and LOUD announcements:

      1. The PS4 IS UNHACKABLE

      2. The PS4 WILL NEVER RUN LINUX

      Hackers love a challenge and serious work on hacking the PS4 will commence as soon as these statements are made.

    50. SonicManipulation
      02-24-2013
      10:22 AM
      50

      No system is ever 100% and nothing is ever certain. The ps3 was "unhackable" but was eventually hacked. With the 360 there was the first jtag exploit which was blocked and then considered unhackable, but then the reset glitch was discovered.

      When it comes to computers and software NOTHING is impossible, and even if it's impossible to start with doesn't mean in the future it won't be possible.

    51. smf
      02-24-2013
      10:51 AM
      51

      Originally Posted by SonicManipulation
      No system is ever 100% and nothing is ever certain. The ps3 was "unhackable" but was eventually hacked. With the 360 there was the first jtag exploit which was blocked and then considered unhackable, but then the reset glitch was discovered.

      When it comes to computers and software NOTHING is impossible, and even if it's impossible to start with doesn't mean in the future it won't be possible.
      There are plenty of things that they can do to protect against current methods for exploiting though. Which means that people will have to find new ways. There is not much point in Microsoft doing a new spin of the chips to stop the RGH now, but I would guess that the next generation console will be better protected.

      If they do it right then the only chance would be to factor the keys, which will take a long time if the key size is big enough.

      You can only hope they make a mistake, but there is no guarantee that they will have made a big enough mistake & if they do that you'll spot it.

    52. klbarnes1
      02-24-2013
      11:01 AM
      52

      What ever happened to Graf Chokolo? That dude was the best! He said he would never stop unless Sony killed him, LOLOLOL! Did he stop or did he settle with sony, or is he still in jail?

    53. AsimLeonheart
      02-24-2013
      01:08 PM
      53

      If this is true then I will have to buy legitimate copies or quit gaming this gen. :-( I know that piracy is considered theft but in third world countries like mine where monthly income is barely $200 for an average college/university graduate, we cannot afford to buy $60 dollar games... Piracy has been a boon for people like me because otherwise we would never have been able to play any games at all...

    54. bammo
      02-24-2013
      01:53 PM
      54

      Originally Posted by AsimLeonheart
      If this is true then I will have to buy legitimate copies or quit gaming this gen. :-( I know that piracy is considered theft but in third world countries like mine where monthly income is barely $200 for an average college/university graduate, we cannot afford to buy $60 dollar games... Piracy has been a boon for people like me because otherwise we would never have been able to play any games at all...
      Right I hear that but at the end of the day Sony doesn't care if you can afford to buy a game or not because there are millions of others who can buy the games and to think back on how long it took to even put your foot in the door of hacking the ps3 I can only imagine that it will take even longer to hack the ps4 especially if Sony learned from their mistake with the security of the ps3

    55. Wolfie708
      02-24-2013
      02:15 PM
      55

      Originally Posted by smf
      The DMCA/EUCD also makes it illegal to circumvent DRM.


      It doesn't actually.

      It makes it illegal (that word in itself is dubious at best in this instance) to circumvent any methods put in place to deter piracy etc.

      You can do anything and everything you wish with something you have purchased as long as you do not distribute it or in any way hinder the sales or copyright of the owner/publisher and such like.

      Very short description of course, but don't be fooled by all the legalise and pants spoken by Sony and the rest.

      You have rights as a customer so use them

    56. synce
      02-24-2013
      04:13 PM
      56

      There's always a way around everything, and there's always someone there to leak things. I'm actually hoping we start seeing "offline passes" for used games next-gen. I'm also hoping PS4 is region locked and has all sorts of other limitations. It'll just get hacked that much quicker.

    57. General Plot
      02-24-2013
      04:20 PM
      57

      Originally Posted by AsimLeonheart
      If this is true then I will have to buy legitimate copies or quit gaming this gen. :-( I know that piracy is considered theft but in third world countries like mine where monthly income is barely $200 for an average college/university graduate, we cannot afford to buy $60 dollar games... Piracy has been a boon for people like me because otherwise we would never have been able to play any games at all...
      Just like so many other people, you think not being able to afford something justifies downloading it illegally. Sorry, but just because content exists doesn't mean you're automatically entitled to it. If new games are too expensive, explore other ways (used game stores, ebay, etc...). If you can afford to buy the console (which is much more expensive), then you can afford some money for games.

    58. donglehater
      02-24-2013
      04:28 PM
      58

      It matters not to me...............I will wait several years if need be to pick up a ps4 when the build is stable and at that time someone has found a way to circumvent the security and allow backups to work.

    59. General Plot
      02-24-2013
      04:51 PM
      59

      I personally hope nobody ever does hack it. There's no point really, aside from the obvious (piracy). Since the architecture is basically that of a PC, there's no reason to break it. Homemade apps and such would be better developed on regular PC's. By nature, I'm a tinkerer, and I've followed the console hacking scene for a long time, and this time around, I just can't see the point. It's x86, if you want to code your own software, do it on a PC.

    60. stevorkz
      02-24-2013
      05:11 PM
      60

      Originally Posted by General Plot
      I personally hope nobody ever does hack it. There's no point really, aside from the obvious (piracy). Since the architecture is basically that of a PC, there's no reason to break it. Homemade apps and such would be better developed on regular PC's. By nature, I'm a tinkerer, and I've followed the console hacking scene for a long time, and this time around, I just can't see the point. It's x86, if you want to code your own software, do it on a PC.
      If you don't see the need for opening a console up that you paid hard earned cash for, just because it has a x86 architecture like most computers, then you dont have to. But in that case you definitely haven't realized what hacking devices is all about yet.

      It has nothing to do with merely wanting to code our own software. It has to do with unlocking the full potential of an expensive piece of equipment that you paid for. There is also alot of moral ethics behind it as well.

      We keep getting handed wonderful machines with such potential, except it gets sold to us locked down with a key and we are only able to do what people who dont own it, say we can.

      EDIT: the original Xbox has x86 architecture and it was unlocked in all its glory and it was great. Hell if the original Xbox wasnt hacked we wouldnt have great apps such as XBMC which I still use today on my raspberry pi.

    61. Theeze
      02-24-2013
      05:50 PM
      61

      Originally Posted by General Plot
      I personally hope nobody ever does hack it. There's no point really, aside from the obvious (piracy). Since the architecture is basically that of a PC, there's no reason to break it. Homemade apps and such would be better developed on regular PC's. By nature, I'm a tinkerer, and I've followed the console hacking scene for a long time, and this time around, I just can't see the point. It's x86, if you want to code your own software, do it on a PC.
      If you're running PCSX2 or dolphin emulator on a ps4, it would make much more sense on a console with a comfortable and convenient surroundings (controller, couch, big tv)

      Imagine xmbc on the ps4 which would be a much better solution to what we have now in showtime. Better plugin support, more features, more devs on board. If the PS4 ever gets busted wide open , the possibilities are near endless. If all you're thinking is straight out piracy then you aren't looking at the bigger picture.

      I would say I have a top-end PC that i've built this summer, better than what the ps4 seems to offer in terms of power and performance. I would still enjoy things like xmbc and high end emulators that can easily be developed and enjoyed at the confort of your choosing instead of limiting factor on pc. I don't like having all my things in the same spot, the less clutter, the better.

    62. General Plot
      02-24-2013
      05:51 PM
      62

      Originally Posted by stevorkz
      If you don't see the need for opening a console up that you paid hard earned cash for, just because it has a x86 architecture like most computers, then you dont have to. But in that case you definitely haven't realized what hacking devices is all about yet.

      It has nothing to do with merely wanting to code our own software. It has to do with unlocking the full potential of an expensive piece of equipment that you paid for. There is also alot of moral ethics behind it as well.

      We keep getting handed wonderful machines with such potential, except it gets sold to us locked down with a key and we are only able to do what people who dont own it, say we can.

      EDIT: the original Xbox has x86 architecture and it was unlocked in all its glory and it was great. Hell if the original Xbox wasnt hacked we wouldnt have great apps such as XBMC which I still use today on my raspberry pi.
      Don't try to school me. I've been in the scene for longer than you might think and I more than understand the concept of homebrew and getting the most out of a piece of hardware, but what I also know is that when you look around communities (this one or others like it), the general consensus is people saying they "want homebrew" and "backups", when it doesn't take a genius to know they mean backup managers and help with using downloaded games. How many posts have you seen where someone asked for help with a torrent they downloaded and don't know how to unrar them or how to load them? I've seen about a million. And how many have asked for help with homebrew games, for example? Not many. They're few and far between. This is what the "homebrew scene" is today.

      Again, I reiterate what I said before: I hope the PS4 never gets hacked. I'm tired of seeing warez kiddies with a million questions on how to use their stolen software.

    63. joe007
      02-24-2013
      06:01 PM
      63

      wont the fact the ps4 is based on pc hardware mean it will be easier to crack?

    64. General Plot
      02-24-2013
      06:04 PM
      64

      Originally Posted by joe007
      wont the fact the ps4 is based on pc hardware mean it will be easier to crack?
      Security is mainly implemented by the software. System architecture has almost nothing to do with how secure a system is. Aside from efuses and dedicated SPE's (which can be integrated just as well on an x86 chip), the strength of the security is down to how well the software has been written to protect itself.

    65. ViperMM
      02-24-2013
      06:39 PM
      65

      Originally Posted by General Plot
      pointless whining as always
      Plot, F*** you very much as always. The architecture has everything to do with reversal being easy. How many people avidly know PowerPC architecture versus good ole x86? And for those of you who do know x86 Tell Mr. Plot to nop 0x90. Also Plot the fact that you bring up the Piracy thing is silly. The fact of the matter remains the XboX was hacked because of homebrew and it was x86 making it both a great target and an excellent set top box, now it's time peoples set top boxes get a good upgrade.
      Now back on track, this patent sounds an aweful lot like some sort of ping.....
      Could this be why we need the option to emulate blu-ray drive speed on Ps3 debug firmwares? Sony may already have this implemented and ready to go if my assumptions are correct. And as always Plot go fall into some sort of hole or off a cliff or something.
      PS: Also Plot the Ps4 is currently slated to have more ram than the PC setup in your signature. I also surmise it will be cheaper.

    66. GregoryRasputin
      02-24-2013
      07:06 PM
      66

      Originally Posted by General Plot
      Again, I reiterate what I said before: I hope the PS4 never gets hacked. I'm tired of seeing warez kiddies with a million questions on how to use their stolen software.
      The amount of people that use PCSX2, how many do you think use it with legit software VS those who use it with stolen software ?

      Statistically speaking, most people who use Emulators do so with stolen software.

    67. ViperMM
      02-24-2013
      07:32 PM
      67

      Originally Posted by GregoryRasputin
      The amount of people that use PCSX2, how many do you think use it with legit software VS those who use it with stolen software ?

      Statistically speaking, most people who use Emulators do so with stolen software.
      <[MENTION=95160]ViperMM[/MENTION]> !seen GregoryRasputin
      <&HaX> GregoryRasputin was last seen here 1 day, 1 hour, 53 minutes ago.
      <%Olga2>He is not here
      <[MENTION=95160]ViperMM[/MENTION]> I know baby. I know....
      I'm sure Plot will come back with something like... we know some people pirate things on our emulator, however we have evidence Sony employees have used it.
      Anyways, I think this new patent probably isn't all that new considering the way Sony works. I do think them filing a patent definately makes this new to John Q. Public and makes this good to discuss and be in our news. :P

    68. GregoryRasputin
      02-24-2013
      07:37 PM
      68

      Originally Posted by ViperMM
      <[MENTION=95160]ViperMM[/MENTION]> !seen GregoryRasputin
      <&HaX> GregoryRasputin was last seen here 1 day, 1 hour, 53 minutes ago.
      <%Olga2>He is not here
      <[MENTION=95160]ViperMM[/MENTION]> I know baby. I know....
      I'm sure Plot will come back with something like... we know some people pirate things on our emulator, however we have evidence Sony employees have used it.
      Anyways, I think this new patent probably isn't all that new considering the way Sony works. I do think them filing a patent definately makes this new to John Q. Public and makes this good to discuss and be in our news. :P
      I've been on a TV show watching Marathon, Fringe and Jericho.

    69. stevorkz
      02-24-2013
      07:57 PM
      69

      Originally Posted by General Plot
      Don't try to school me. I've been in the scene for longer than you might think and I more than understand the concept of homebrew and getting the most out of a piece of hardware, but what I also know is that when you look around communities (this one or others like it), the general consensus is people saying they "want homebrew" and "backups", when it doesn't take a genius to know they mean backup managers and help with using downloaded games. How many posts have you seen where someone asked for help with a torrent they downloaded and don't know how to unrar them or how to load them? I've seen about a million. And how many have asked for help with homebrew games, for example? Not many. They're few and far between. This is what the "homebrew scene" is today.

      Again, I reiterate what I said before: I hope the PS4 never gets hacked. I'm tired of seeing warez kiddies with a million questions on how to use their stolen software.
      School you? Really? lol. You should try not to automatically look for ways to take offense from peoples posts. Nothing i said in my post was meant to offend you. Unless you actually learnt something from what I said and that was subconsciously too much for your pride to handle?.

      All Im saying is no matter what the general consensus is as you put it, that doesnt change the fact that there are and always will be people who want there machines hacked for reasons other than piracy.

      "Im not going to put cfw on my ps3/4 because most of the community do it just for piracy", is a rather dumb mindset Im sorry to be so bold.

      Now Im not saying every game I play is original, but If I was the only person in the world that hacked their ps3 just for homebrew, I would still do it because homebrew is fun and unlocking your device is something I believe in and I DEFINITELY would still do it if it only enabled homebrew and not piracy aswell. It has nothing to do with what the rest of the community use their jailbroken machine for.

    70. ViperMM
      02-24-2013
      08:06 PM
      70

      Originally Posted by GregoryRasputin
      I've been on a TV show watching Marathon, Fringe and Jericho.
      Adamsville got me hooked on Breaking Bad so now I'm doing the same

    71. AsimLeonheart
      02-24-2013
      08:08 PM
      71

      Originally Posted by General Plot
      Just like so many other people, you think not being able to afford something justifies downloading it illegally. Sorry, but just because content exists doesn't mean you're automatically entitled to it. If new games are too expensive, explore other ways (used game stores, ebay, etc...). If you can afford to buy the console (which is much more expensive), then you can afford some money for games.
      It is very difficult for you to imagine lives and circumstances of people in third world countries. I can buy a $300 console... AFTER SAVING BIT BY BIT FOR A FEW YEARS but I just cannot spend $60 even only two or three times a year to buy games because that is equal to the livelihood of my family for two months. Hell, I managed to buy my PS3 160GB just recently in August 2011 for $320 even though I had been wanting to buy one since launch. It is easy to say such things but only those who live in such countries truly understand the situation. There are no used game stores, game rental stores, Ebay, Google Play, Amazon, Paypal or any other such luxuries in my country. The few legitimate games available on local stores are imported/smuggled and are sold for premium prices which are even higher than $60. I cant even find the game I want because shop owners only keep 4 or 5 titles at a time. They just cannot afford to keep all the latest and popular titles on stores. I am one of the most priveledged in my country being a university graduate, being able to speak/write English, financially well-off than 90% of the population but even I cannot afford to buy a couple of legitimate games without raising some eyebrows at my home. Just because we do not have the money like the people in first world countries does not means we do not desire or deserve the joys of life. By your logic it means if a person cannot afford to buy food then he deserves to die of hunger instead of stealing it to stay alive. Like I said before, only a person who lives in poverty can understand the problems of the poor. I am sorry if I have said anything to offend you; I just wanted you to understand my situation and why I cant buy legitimate games.

    72. mdrb97
      02-24-2013
      08:19 PM
      72

      lol, in my opinion this protection is weak, why? Because, take as an example, if you're reading it from the hdd, it will be obviously faster than reading the game by the blue-ray drive, lets say that the blue-ray drive loads 60mb/s, and the hdd 100mb/s, just apply a limit to the load speeds of the hard drive, but I don't know I just think it could work this way.

    73. stevorkz
      02-24-2013
      08:30 PM
      73

      Originally Posted by mdrb97
      lol, in my opinion this protection is weak, why? Because, take as an example, if you're reading it from the hdd, it will be obviously faster than reading the game by the blue-ray drive, lets say that the blue-ray drive loads 60mb/s, and the hdd 100mb/s, just apply a limit to the load speeds of the hard drive, but I don't know I just think it could work this way.
      I thought of something similar as well although obviously anything said at this stage is easier said than done. How about a spoof of some kind to make the device think its taking a certain amount of time to read the game when in fact its not?

      All theory of course. But at this stage theory is all that can give us hope . That and the architectural implementation.

    74. cboushell
      02-24-2013
      09:00 PM
      74

      Originally Posted by ZOMBIEKILLAH
      Who said that i am demanding anything ? On that note ,you like buying DISC based movies, games, music, that limits you from copying the media to multiple device you own & have to carry a book/suitcase of discs around. Then so enjoy your infected products. I will say it in simple words, you pay for it you own it. They will not buy the product back from you, nor are you paying a rental fee. Guess what ? We own it, that is the bottom line. We do what we want. Nobody will stop me/us who choose to do more with are media.

      It is not how i want it, it is how 50% of the world wants it. I just have the balls to speak out against them & restrictions ,since i am one of many who make them rich ! To think about it ,i do have the right to speak my mind or even demand it as a customer who increases there revenue. If they want to sell me limited products that can do so much more? Then i say FU to the sellers of those products. I find myself a better product which does not cause grief to me as a customer, by silencing my audio of my movies, just because i want to watch my movies on a device that can hold all my media. I enjoy having my own type of NETFIX collection/movie covers .I am proud to purchase & own a product that allows me to stream my media with no interference. I paid for it ,so i will stream the crap out of them all day long in digital form ripped by yours truly.

      So you want to obey & bow down to these scum?

      They do not want you to copy to any device .
      They want you to buy multiple copies.
      They want to sell you another copy if you break the first.
      They want to sell you services like NETFLIX & others alike, while you pay to watch movies at your finger tips. Which we can do this in are own home with the movies we buy!
      They want to re sell you the same old products/games on a new console.
      Blah ,Blah , Blah ..

      It is ok, if you want to be one of the suckers in the bunch. Go ahead be my guest, they love people who do not speak out against them & stay silent while they rule over you like sheep. I am not one to keep my mouth shut , or stand there & not fight when i see someone wants to hurt me, or to follow people who try to control me & the world.

      The last thing i will do is say "YES MASTER" to any controlling corporation. They who sell products that interrupt my entertainment ,will not fill there pockets with my money. When they clearly know they can sell a better product ,that is not infected & allow you to watch or play games the way you want to. As a veteran customer who has supported for them for decades, i have every right to speak my mind.

      Nobody demanded nothing here or in my post. It is simple ,if there is something in a product that will interfere with your experience .Then buy the products that do not interfere with your
      digital experience. The sellers of products who gives you freedom, will be the ones who win in the future, not the products with spyware / firmware infection.

      No one is forcing you to buy any of these products that are causing you to have a mental breakdown here in front of us. If you don't like a product or manufacturer of a product, don't buy it. The solution to your problem with these companies is simple, don't support them, and that actually seems to be what you are suggesting, the problem is you don't seem to be able to resist the products they make, and therefore are unable to live by the beliefs you espouse. One last thing guy, the word is "our" not "are". And to those who seem to think that this guy knows his s**t, as you put it, can you please tell me what makes you feel like this. Please point out his huge pearls of knowledge.
      ************* [ - Post Merged - ] *************
      Originally Posted by AsimLeonheart
      It is very difficult for you to imagine lives and circumstances of people in third world countries. I can buy a $300 console... AFTER SAVING BIT BY BIT FOR A FEW YEARS but I just cannot spend $60 even only two or three times a year to buy games because that is equal to the livelihood of my family for two months. Hell, I managed to buy my PS3 160GB just recently in August 2011 for $320 even though I had been wanting to buy one since launch. It is easy to say such things but only those who live in such countries truly understand the situation. There are no used game stores, game rental stores, Ebay, Google Play, Amazon, Paypal or any other such luxuries in my country. The few legitimate games available on local stores are imported/smuggled and are sold for premium prices which are even higher than $60. I cant even find the game I want because shop owners only keep 4 or 5 titles at a time. They just cannot afford to keep all the latest and popular titles on stores. I am one of the most priveledged in my country being a university graduate, being able to speak/write English, financially well-off than 90% of the population but even I cannot afford to buy a couple of legitimate games without raising some eyebrows at my home. Just because we do not have the money like the people in first world countries does not means we do not desire or deserve the joys of life. By your logic it means if a person cannot afford to buy food then he deserves to die of hunger instead of stealing it to stay alive. Like I said before, only a person who lives in poverty can understand the problems of the poor. I am sorry if I have said anything to offend you; I just wanted you to understand my situation and why I cant buy legitimate games.


      Hey if you can't afford a car steal your neighbors, if the girl you like won't f**k you rape her, if your wife can't have children there is always kidnapping. Your sense of entitlement is sickening. If there is something I can't afford I go without especially something as trivial and unnecessary as a videogame. When the horny, hungry, and tired of walking guy from the end of your street comes in your home rapes your wife/mother and or children, eats your food, then drives off in your car I'm glad to know you won't have a problem with any of it. Good day.

    75. ultimatek
      02-24-2013
      11:18 PM
      75

      for christ sake
      this may not even be for the ps4, its only a patent, no system specified
      assuming is gonna be implemented, then

      first, the architecture of this anti-piracy measure
      is almost identical to the xbox 360. such measure was
      defeated in months if not days. so is not practical.

      second, it doesn work well as main anti-piracy measure.
      you see any fingerprints in the disc can trigger a fail
      check or a flag, meaning you console or account(or both)
      will be blocked/banned. that's why it can only be complement
      to other measures, as the 360 does, and again it doesn't
      stop piracy...it only creates more tools and mechanisms
      to disable this measures or circunvent it.

      third, this check can be defeated via disc drive or cfw very
      easy....via disc drive we can add additional instructions
      to circunvent the check and comply with the console check
      request, like the ixtreme fw on the 360 does. and via cfw
      we can remove the check or fake it, simple as that.
      also it not only check seek time, but it check data flow
      and data bandwidth. their reasoning is that this anti-piracy
      measure will detect anything not legal or possible under
      special circumstances...again all this can be easily patched.
      reading the patent there was a segment that mentioned legal
      games in flash drives....i wonder if sony will start using drm
      infected dongles to distribute games...


      four. what really disturbs me is, if the check fails,
      there is an instruction to "check user details", that
      could be your username, credit card info, ip address
      and more.

      if anyone remebers the ppl who received a letter from sony
      warning them to block/ban them and sue their asses if they continue
      their behavior to circunvent the system & play pirated
      games. while no case emerged from users being sued from
      playing copied games, this can change for the future.
      with the new laws coming into effect, they can force our
      isps to handle our real life identities. so this "check for
      user details" if a fail check/flag ocurrs, can trigger an app
      on sonys server side and use this data to automatic send a
      bill to us with the cost of the illegal game/movie or app we
      used and a fee as penalty for using illegal means to use them.
      i see no trouble for sony doing this, but this is only expeculation
      and only my personal point of view, of what sony can do
      and be capable of.

      is not if it can be hacked, is when it will.

      having a x86 processing architecture, will make matters
      more easy to hack, and i will love to see what kind of homebrew
      will come out of it. that means porting emulators already on pc
      to ps4 very easy and fast...so i will like to see sony when some1
      creates/port a ps2 emulator to the ps4 or better, having 6 times
      more power under the hood, i see no real trouble making a ps3
      emulator, with time, all is possible.


      obviusly no one should expect the ps4 to be fully hacked in months, it will
      take time 2-3 years maybe, as any new system does...

      protected systems and media are the reason for piracy, and
      any step to secure harder something, it excites the piracy
      itself even more.

    76. Theeze
      02-24-2013
      11:46 PM
      76

      What's up with all the caps? If you want to make a point, you can make it without coming off as annoying.

      We know it will be based on x86, we're talking about the possibilities it can provide IF hacked, no one said it would be easy. The ones claiming it to be easy as pie aren't tech savvy.

      I for example made a comment about if it were hacked as a few others did. You should mention the ones instead of caps locking buddy. You don't want to be one of those people.

    77. Solotime
      02-25-2013
      12:03 AM
      77

      I was going to hack my psp back in 2009 to hack on Fire team bravo 2. There was so many f**king hackers r*ping me so hard. I got so sick of them I wanted to hack but I learned how to glitch super good so I would make games and do some cool glitches with people. In 2011 I hacked my psp and downloaded some homebrew. I made all legal copies of my psp games. I however, never going to share my ISO's. In 2013 I learned more about better homebrews. So all the damn people need is better sites to list the F**king homewbrews. I googled end list nights trying to found homebrew and never luck. But I found a site that has over 100 updated things and it rocks now. I installed: Psps go clock, psp calculator, PSP day-view, minecraft ( had it in 2012 thought) download manager, louder xmb. And much more things. I love the psp for homebrew. Not too much for the pirate games. There really isn't many great games. I own the legal copy of GTA vc and LC.

    78. ultimatek
      02-25-2013
      12:13 AM
      78

      Originally Posted by Theeze
      What's up with all the caps? If you want to make a point, you can make it without coming off as annoying.

      We know it will be based on x86, we're talking about the possibilities it can provide IF hacked, no one said it would be easy. The ones claiming it to be easy as pie aren't tech savvy.

      I for example made a comment about if it were hacked as a few others did. You should mention the ones instead of caps locking buddy. You don't want to be one of those people.
      lol, i read better with caps...fixed now. anyhow once the access to the system has been gained it should be easy to trick the system, thats what i meant, specially under x86. It's not like it will be easy as a pie, but for the ones with enough knowledge will be. See, the ps3 scene got delayed cuz of the cell cpu architechture...was different, it took time for developers to master the code, so the same for others, it took time for hackers and pirates to unlock it...as every new language...it just takes time. But x86 is a very well know language....in fact is the defacto language in computing science. Just look the 360, with the jtag/reset glitch hack, it opened the system to unlimited possibilities, no need for drive, no need for dashboard, no need at all, it is just open to anything based on x86... so imagine the power of the ps4 fully opened....just imagine....

      check the original xbox...just one single homebrew XBMC, made it almost more popular than halo...

    79. NTA
      02-25-2013
      02:07 AM
      79

      can't remember the last time i played a console or handheld with no digital form of digital distribution haha. even 3ds roms exist although there doesn't seem to be public support on flash cards yet

    80. stevorkz
      02-25-2013
      04:18 AM
      80

      I think that sony went with x86 for 2 reasons. One is because its easier to develop on and the other is its cheaper.

      Im sure that they would crap in there pants if ps4 gets hacked because it would probably be as open as the original xbox with that x86 architecture

    81. DEFAULTDNB
      02-25-2013
      04:49 AM
      81

      Late to the party here:

      If PS4 gets hacked > build backup loader with loading time delay (per/game based on loading times of the original) > beat the front page diagram.

    82. General Plot
      02-25-2013
      04:57 AM
      82

      Originally Posted by ViperMM
      Plot, F*** you very much as always. The architecture has everything to do with reversal being easy. How many people avidly know PowerPC architecture versus good ole x86? And for those of you who do know x86 Tell Mr. Plot to nop 0x90. Also Plot the fact that you bring up the Piracy thing is silly. The fact of the matter remains the XboX was hacked because of homebrew and it was x86 making it both a great target and an excellent set top box, now it's time peoples set top boxes get a good upgrade.
      Awww, sounds like you got a little butt hurt there. So you're saying x86 is vulnerable due to it's hardware? That's funny, I don't remember Linux systems being as vulnerable as Windows machines (which is why most servers don't use Windows). And the only holes you'll find on a Linux box are in the software running on the platform, and has NOTHING to do with the fact it's x86. If that were the case, you'd see alot more servers running on PowerPC and other platforms.

      Originally Posted by ViperMM
      PS: Also Plot the Ps4 is currently slated to have more ram than the PC setup in your signature. I also surmise it will be cheaper.
      Oh wow, I really NEED two more gigs. Even though I've never even used half my available memory on any occasion.

      Originally Posted by ViperMM
      I'm sure Plot will come back with something like... we know some people pirate things on our emulator, however we have evidence Sony employees have used it.
      Anyways, I think this new patent probably isn't all that new considering the way Sony works. I do think them filing a patent definately makes this new to John Q. Public and makes this good to discuss and be in our news. :P
      I love how you keep coming back to me, like you can't get me off your mind. Here's a handy tip: get in the bathtub and get the sand out of your vagina. Then come back and see if you can handle a discussion without throwing a tantrum.

      Originally Posted by GregoryRasputin
      The amount of people that use PCSX2, how many do you think use it with legit software VS those who use it with stolen software ?

      Statistically speaking, most people who use Emulators do so with stolen software.
      We can't control how people use our software, BUT we give no support for using downloaded games. In fact, our forum rules state that when someone is found to be asking for help with pirated games, they get one warning and their thread is immediately closed. Second time, they're permanently banned. Any member found trying to help that person is treated the same way (first time warned, second time banned).

      Originally Posted by stevorkz
      School you? Really? lol. You should try not to automatically look for ways to take offense from peoples posts. Nothing i said in my post was meant to offend you. Unless you actually learnt something from what I said and that was subconsciously too much for your pride to handle?.
      I didn't take offense, I was pointing out that I don't need lecturing on the subject, which is what you were trying to do:

      Originally Posted by stevorkz
      If you don't see the need for opening a console up that you paid hard earned cash for, just because it has a x86 architecture like most computers, then you dont have to. But in that case you definitely haven't realized what hacking devices is all about yet.
      Originally Posted by AsimLeonheart
      It is very difficult for you to imagine lives and circumstances of people in third world countries. I can buy a $300 console... AFTER SAVING BIT BY BIT FOR A FEW YEARS but I just cannot spend $60 even only two or three times a year to buy games because that is equal to the livelihood of my family for two months. Hell, I managed to buy my PS3 160GB just recently in August 2011 for $320 even though I had been wanting to buy one since launch. It is easy to say such things but only those who live in such countries truly understand the situation. There are no used game stores, game rental stores, Ebay, Google Play, Amazon, Paypal or any other such luxuries in my country. The few legitimate games available on local stores are imported/smuggled and are sold for premium prices which are even higher than $60. I cant even find the game I want because shop owners only keep 4 or 5 titles at a time. They just cannot afford to keep all the latest and popular titles on stores. I am one of the most priveledged in my country being a university graduate, being able to speak/write English, financially well-off than 90% of the population but even I cannot afford to buy a couple of legitimate games without raising some eyebrows at my home. Just because we do not have the money like the people in first world countries does not means we do not desire or deserve the joys of life. By your logic it means if a person cannot afford to buy food then he deserves to die of hunger instead of stealing it to stay alive. Like I said before, only a person who lives in poverty can understand the problems of the poor. I am sorry if I have said anything to offend you; I just wanted you to understand my situation and why I cant buy legitimate games.
      Then get a subscription to PSN+ or wait until prices come down. If that's still too much, then maybe you shouldn't have bought a console you couldn't afford games for? You can't compare it to stealing food if you're hungry. It's a games console, ie: a luxury. You don't need a PS3 to live, and it won't put dinner on your table to have one.

      Anywho, I know there's alot of haters on here that can't stand me telling it how it is. People looking for a free ride and praying the next console will let them keep stealing material. That's all almost anyone seems to care about these days. Well, I stand by my hopes in the PS4 never being hacked. Like it or lump it, I don't care. I'm not here to please anyone, but have just as much a right to my opinion and hopes as the next guy.

    83. stevorkz
      02-25-2013
      06:11 AM
      83

      Originally Posted by General Plot
      I'm not here to please anyone, but have just as much a right to my opinion and hopes as the next guy.
      Thats weird because all I was doing earlier was giving my opinion and suddenly I was apparently trying to lecture people by doing so, so how is what you are doing any different?

      Fair enough, an opinion is an opinion as you say. In that case mine still stands (sits behind large swathes of rights):

      Anyone who doesn't want consoles to be unlocked solely because of the piracy factor, like sony, doesn't understand the bigger picture with regards to what console hacking is really representing. I cant put it more simpler than that

    84. CrazyLinuxNerd
      02-25-2013
      06:22 AM
      84

      This will harm legit customers, and not piracy..

      Pirates will by-pass, and legit customers will get penalized.. Here's why:

      If you damage your media, but not to the extent of completely not working, it may cause minor read errors, and thus slow down loading time. If the aforementioned system is to be implemented it would block this media based on the fact it's loading a little slower.

      Furthermore, if your media reader is slightly aged, after some time the laser can ware out. As such again, media will be blocked due to slower reading times. In this situation you will not be able to load any media...

    85. smf
      02-25-2013
      06:25 AM
      85

      Originally Posted by Wolfie708
      It doesn't actually.

      It makes it illegal (that word in itself is dubious at best in this instance) to circumvent any methods put in place to deter piracy etc.
      And DRM is a method put in place to deter piracy.

      "It criminalizes production and dissemination of technology, devices, or services intended to circumvent measures (commonly known as digital rights management or DRM) that control access to copyrighted works. It also criminalizes the act of circumventing an access control, whether or not there is actual infringement of copyright itself"

      Ok I'm being lazy and that is from Wikipedia, if you want to disprove it by reading the DMCA yourself then go ahead.

    86. DEFAULTDNB
      02-25-2013
      06:29 AM
      86

      Originally Posted by CrazyLinuxNerd
      This will harm legit customers, and not piracy..

      Pirates will by-pass, and legit customers will get penalized.. Here's why:

      If you damage your media, but not to the extent of completely not working, it may cause minor read errors, and thus slow down loading time. If the aforementioned system is to be implemented it would block this media based on the fact it's loading a little slower.

      Furthermore, if your media reader is slightly aged, after some time the laser can ware out. As such again, media will be blocked due to slower reading times. In this situation you will not be able to load any media...
      The way I read it was that they were looking for stupidly-faster-than-normal loading speeds... not slower.

      USB loading is always faster than drive, I presumed they were looking to spot that

    87. CrazyLinuxNerd
      02-25-2013
      06:31 AM
      87

      Originally Posted by DEFAULTDNB
      The way I read it was that they were looking for stupidly-faster-than-normal loading speeds... not slower.

      USB loading is always faster than drive, I presumed they were looking to spot that
      It would seem that.

      However they mention "range" which typically has both a minimum and a maximum load time. Thus, if it does not load within it's minimum time, it should block it.

      If it does not, they have not specified their patent clear enough.

    88. smf
      02-25-2013
      06:34 AM
      88

      Originally Posted by joe007
      wont the fact the ps4 is based on pc hardware mean it will be easier to crack?
      No, the PS3 is based on PowerPC which was used in Apple Macs for years & that didn't help.

      If they do their job properly and encrypt ram and all the code and don't make any code signing bugs (both the Wii & PS3 had mistakes in code signing) then it will be pretty tough to break.

      Game exploits using hacked saves should be possible to defend against using techniques developed for Windows/Linux/MacOS. Things like buffer overflow exploits can be stopped using stack randomisation, no execute bit, write protected code areas etc.

      Protection against glitching attacks can be designed in, it depends on how much money they are willing to spend.

      They have the whole world of hackers to learn from when designing their security. It all depends on the quality of the work they do. We can't know that until it's done.

      Originally Posted by General Plot
      Awww, sounds like you got a little butt hurt there. So you're saying x86 is vulnerable due to it's hardware? That's funny, I don't remember Linux systems being as vulnerable as Windows machines (which is why most servers don't use Windows). And the only holes you'll find on a Linux box are in the software running on the platform, and has NOTHING to do with the fact it's x86. If that were the case, you'd see alot more servers running on PowerPC and other platforms.
      Linux systems are pretty vunerable too, servers get hacked all the time but you tend not to hear about it unless they are forced to disclose. MacOS is worse. The weakness here is that they are designed to be accessed remotely in ways that consoles are not, so it's not really as relevant.

      Computer security is completely different to console security. With computer security if you don't want someone to physically tamper with the hardware then you lock it up. With a console they never want you to physically tamper with it.

      You can run your own software on any PC no matter how much it's locked down, just plug in a bootable flash drive or insert a live iso and you're done. If they try to make it harder by not including usb or ide/sata ports or making them non bootable then reprogram the flash bios. Even the xbox had hardware protection against that by including the boot code on the southbridge die. Things have moved on since then, don't expect the same exploits to work on the next xbox and PS4 as you had on the xbox.

      The advantage of the xbox for hacking wasn't that it was X86, it was that it had a fast CPU and a harddrive. The PS2 had a slower CPU and the hard drive was optional and it was quite rare for people to have one.

      Originally Posted by CrazyLinuxNerd
      It would seem that.

      However they mention "range" which typically has both a minimum and a maximum load time. Thus, if it does not load within it's minimum time, it should block it.

      If it does not, they have not specified their patent clear enough.
      You're assuming something about the range. The drive will give up after a certain amount of time, their slowest speed could just be based on that. The timeout and retry mechanism might also be integrated in with this system.

    89. zeveroth
      02-25-2013
      08:53 AM
      89

      I agree with most other folks on here when I say it will not stop. Granted things will change, but so long as media exists, so will pirated and counterfeit media. Again, it'll just be a bit harder and require someone smarter than before, to do it.

    90. SandyRavage
      02-25-2013
      09:43 AM
      90

      Originally Posted by GregoryRasputin
      We all know that piracy goes with games consoles, smart hackers always manage to somehow circumvent ... [Read More]

      Very true.. Piracy will always be around.

    91. ZOMBIEKILLAH
      02-25-2013
      10:47 AM
      91

      Originally Posted by cboushell
      No one is forcing you to buy any of these products that are causing you to have a mental breakdown here in front of us. If you don't like a product or manufacturer of a product, don't buy it. The solution to your problem with these companies is simple, don't support them, and that actually seems to be what you are suggesting, the problem is you don't seem to be able to resist the products they make, and therefore are unable to live by the beliefs you espouse. One last thing guy, the word is "our" not "are". And to those who seem to think that this guy knows his s**t, as you put it, can you please tell me what makes you feel like this. Please point out his huge pearls of knowledge.

      Maybe if your brain was bigger than a nutshell, you would not be so blind to see the big picture beyond this thread of piracy nonsense. It will never stop, they will have to shut down the internet. I need to say nothing more, it is obvious you do not follow piracy related drama since the last +decade/s. Corporations who claim that piracy is hurting there income, when they making more money now they ever did is ridiculous. They only want to get every dime from us while limiting & controlling your enjoyment ,watching, logging your personal life. There was no piracy talk is hurting there revenues when movies /gaming was offline but, it was still happening smart a33 ! They themselves have hurt there own revenues & yes people should boycotted them , show them what it is really like to lose profits /revenue for not changing there ways of distribution/prices/DRM plastered on everything. It is 2013 not 1970s ,get with it, people want thing fast & there way ,more options less limits !

      They do not meet peoples needs people will hack ! They want to use lies, violate are privacy with new made up laws, monitor people of the net over lies of loss income. This affects everyone you A$$hole ,not only people who download. I am not wasting another quote, with you few post wonders. You who probably never contributed anything but, you have ALL the answers to correct others. Another guy going around trying to be better then the other guy.

      I have watched this piracy trap unfold since way before the MPAA was caught uploading fake movie torrents. Then they have the balls to sue the people who downloaded a fake file that was not even a real movie. Fake movies are not copyrighted ! I watched them setup this piracy plan of there's. It all leads up to today & how the internet is being disrupted ,silenced ,censored ,sites taken offline, by the 100,000s ! They want to control over everything , not only offline world anymore pal. They can not get enough money from the offline world ,so now they want to hunt people online & sue them for the only thing they could sue for "PIRACY CONSPIRACY'S" This word piracy is there weapon.

      Get a life pal & Sony is no better than the MPAA. Sony is controlling company who has caused grief to many PS3 owners with there ultimatums. You are obviously a person who does not care to be ruled or fight for your freedom & bends over ,so i will not stop you from from taking it dry in the future. While great sites vanish & you are censored over a lies "piracy". This will be cause of the blind leading the blind & you will be it's leader !

      It is the ones who take the abuse from others who get walked on in life. Well that is defiantly not me, so here is me telling you to ???? off & stick your correction where the sun do not shine. When you have read piratically every article relating the words piracy & see through the lies & realize it is all crap. Until then the question marks in blue are for you.

      Another lie from a corporation who had almost failed like Sega in console wars. Now cries piracy like the rest to blame the people of the internet for there own failure!

      Code:
       Nintendo Wants to Hunt Down Game Pirates and Block Websites
      Educate yourself a$$ wipe, cause you obviously do not care where all this piracy talk is leading to !

      http://torrentfreak.com/nintendo-wan...bsites-130225/

      Copyright trolls started a war they can not win & the only way to stop piracy/online piracy is to shut down the entire internet = Everybody loses then & they lose even more "money" !

    92. General Plot
      02-25-2013
      11:30 AM
      92

      Originally Posted by smf
      Linux systems are pretty vunerable too, servers get hacked all the time but you tend not to hear about it unless they are forced to disclose. MacOS is worse. The weakness here is that they are designed to be accessed remotely in ways that consoles are not, so it's not really as relevant.
      Depends on the distro. In it's core, Red Hat Enterprise is heaps more secure than your typical Windows server. And indeed, you can't compare consoles to PC's, as a PC BIOS is designed with much more user configuration (boot devices, hardware settings, etc...), whereas a console won't even have the option to enter any sort of CMOS settings. Not to mention that while the architecture is very common, you can bet the software will be extremely proprietary and specifically written for the hardware.

    93. smf
      02-25-2013
      11:30 AM
      93

      Originally Posted by ZOMBIEKILLAH
      Sony is controlling company who has caused grief to many PS3 owners with there ultimatums.
      If Sony has caused you any grief at all then you probably ought to re-evaluate your life.

      Originally Posted by General Plot
      Depends on the distro. In it's core, Red Hat Enterprise is heaps more secure than your typical Windows server. And indeed, you can't compare consoles to PC's, as a PC BIOS is designed with much more user configuration (boot devices, hardware settings, etc...), whereas a console won't even have the option to enter any sort of CMOS settings. Not to mention that while the architecture is very common, you can bet the software will be extremely proprietary and specifically written for the hardware.
      If you are expecting the chip that AMD are supplying to be an off the shelf processor with no hardware support for protection, then I think you will be surprised.

      The Wii & PS3 IPL still can't be changed, if they hadn't made mistakes in the IPL then neither console would have been hacked to the same level. The PS4 is likely to be more secure because they've had hackers telling them what they've been doing wrong. They've even managed to close down hacks on the super slim PS3.

    94. General Plot
      02-25-2013
      11:40 AM
      94

      Originally Posted by smf
      If you are expecting the chip that AMD are supplying to be an off the shelf processor with no hardware support for protection, then I think you will be surprised.
      On the contrary, I expect it will be a specialized APU with built in forms of security on the chip. I wouldn't expect that Sony would rely solely on software to protect the system.

    95. stevorkz
      02-25-2013
      12:03 PM
      95

      Originally Posted by smf
      If Sony has caused you any grief at all then you probably ought to re-evaluate your life.
      Perhaps you should re_evaluate your facts before telling someone to re-evaluate their life just because sony is giving them grief.

      Reality check : Half this site doesn't like sony after all the crap they've caught on with their customers in the last few years. Trust me when I say this, [MENTION=163760]ZOMBIEKILLAH[/MENTION] is not the only one that doesn't like sony. There is an army out there

    96. apollo18
      02-25-2013
      01:15 PM
      96

      Dont worry guys we have smart Hackers:=

      * Rogero [Famous for 4.21,4.30 CFW ]

      * Rebug [Famous for Toggle QA ]

      * Deank [Famous for Awesome Backupmanger "Multiman"]

      * or May be George hotz back to Playstaion Scene


      "hope Anybody explore PS4 "

    97. ViperMM
      02-25-2013
      01:23 PM
      97

      Originally Posted by smf
      If they do their job properly and encrypt ram and all the code and don't make any code signing bugs (both the Wii & PS3 had mistakes in code signing) then it will be pretty tough to break.

      Game exploits using hacked saves should be possible to defend against using techniques developed for Windows/Linux/MacOS. Things like buffer overflow exploits can be stopped using stack randomisation, no execute bit, write protected code areas etc.

      The advantage of the xbox for hacking wasn't that it was X86, it was that it had a fast CPU and a harddrive. The PS2 had a slower CPU and the hard drive was optional and it was quite rare for people to have one.
      I highly doubt Sony will encrypt the RAM on a device that is this dependent on both cost and speed. Buffer Overflows being stopped by stack randomization is laughable. Currently both DEP and ASLR (yeah i know pc based but they would be based offf similar technology) are very easy to defeat. No execute bit and write protected areas could both be defeated by a simple jmp or a nop slide. If the only advantage that got the XboX hacked was fast CPU and harddrive then I'm positive this will have both and be x86 assembly compliant on top of those. Not too mention the huge community out there that knows how to rock systems like these. The fact that people think the Ps4 shouldn't or can't be hacked just shows the same drama queens that wrecked the Ps3 scene will ruin the Ps4 scene. Plot this was aimed at you and people like you I will be happy to see you cause drama in the next scene. I will be there too and will flog your ass every step of the way just like in this one. To the rest of you thanks for creating drama on a scene that doesn't even exist yet.

    98. Theeze
      02-25-2013
      01:32 PM
      98

      Originally Posted by apollo18
      Dont worry guys we have smart Hackers:=

      * Rogero [Famous for 4.21,4.30 CFW ]

      * Rebug [Famous for Toggle QA ]

      * Deank [Famous for Awesome Backupmanger "Multiman"]

      * or May be George hotz back to Playstaion Scene


      "hope Anybody explore PS4 "
      All the people you mentioned except geohot are devs and had little or nothing to do with the jailbreak being possible. All the ones that made it possible either left or got trashed by Sony.

      Real hackers who made the scene possible.

      Geohot, Graf-chokolo and yes to some extent mathieulh (even though I don't like the guy)...and the fail0verflow guys.

      Unless the devs from the xbox scene take a jab at the ps4, the scene will be held hostage by greed and selfishness.

    99. General Plot
      02-25-2013
      01:59 PM
      99

      Originally Posted by ViperMM
      The fact that people think the Ps4 shouldn't or can't be hacked just shows the same drama queens that wrecked the Ps3 scene will ruin the Ps4 scene. Plot this was aimed at you and people like you I will be happy to see you cause drama in the next scene. I will be there too and will flog your ass every step of the way just like in this one. To the rest of you thanks for creating drama on a scene that doesn't even exist yet.
      I see you're still thinking about me. It's kinda gay to keep a guy on your mind this long, isn't it? Anywho, this song goes out to you.

      South Park- Shut Your Face Uncle F**ker (official) - YouTube

    100. stuck?
      02-25-2013
      02:12 PM
      100

      All debates about whomever's penis is the best/biggest should be kept on IRC and not in the forums

    101. Wolfie708
      02-25-2013
      02:13 PM
      101

      Originally Posted by stuck?
      All debates about whomever's penis is the best/biggest should be kept on IRC and not in the forums
      I agree............. Pointless to argue anyway as mine is most obviously the biggest

    102. stevorkz
      02-25-2013
      02:16 PM
      102

      Originally Posted by ViperMM
      To the rest of you thanks for creating drama on a scene that doesn't even exist yet.
      There has been drama for a considerable amount of time regarding next gen consoles.

    103. Solotime
      02-25-2013
      02:54 PM
      103

      Why so much hate in here? Where's the love at?

      p.s free hug's on me

    104. smf
      02-25-2013
      03:39 PM
      104

      Originally Posted by ViperMM
      I highly doubt Sony will encrypt the RAM on a device that is this dependent on both cost and speed. Buffer Overflows being stopped by stack randomization is laughable. Currently both DEP and ASLR (yeah i know pc based but they would be based offf similar technology) are very easy to defeat. No execute bit and write protected areas could both be defeated by a simple jmp or a nop slide. If the only advantage that got the XboX hacked was fast CPU and harddrive then I'm positive this will have both and be x86 assembly compliant on top of those. Not too mention the huge community out there that knows how to rock systems like these.
      The xbox 360 has encrypted ram & it's seven years old.

      I'm not sure how you will achieve a jmp or nop slide when you can't write to executable memory and you can't execute writable memory.

      If they make ALSR mandatory across all modules including the OS then ROP will be useless too. If the memory is encrypted well then you won't have access to a memory dump to disassemble the code, so you won't even know what code you could jump to.

      Nobody knows how to "rock systems like these" as they aren't out yet.

      I think it's laughable that people think that someone will magically hack it & stick it to the man, when there is still no 3DS homebrew & DSi homebrew is very limited. For sodukuhax you had to have bought the game before it was pulled, which it was within 24hours of the exploit being released or you have to buy a cyclods ievolution which isn't supported on the latest firmware. Both of these are limited to what hardware you can access because the security is still very much in place. The PSVita is in a similar position, the games required get pulled as soon as they are exploited and you can't update your firmware which limits what you can do with the console.

      I'd expect to see Wii-U native homebrew before the PS4 is hacked.

    105. AsimLeonheart
      02-25-2013
      05:02 PM
      105

      Originally Posted by cboushell
      No one is forcing you to buy any of these products that are causing you to have a mental breakdown here in front of us. If you don't like a product or manufacturer of a product, don't buy it. The solution to your problem with these companies is simple, don't support them, and that actually seems to be what you are suggesting, the problem is you don't seem to be able to resist the products they make, and therefore are unable to live by the beliefs you espouse. One last thing guy, the word is "our" not "are". And to those who seem to think that this guy knows his s**t, as you put it, can you please tell me what makes you feel like this. Please point out his huge pearls of knowledge.
      ************* [ - Post Merged - ] *************




      Hey if you can't afford a car steal your neighbors, if the girl you like won't f**k you rape her, if your wife can't have children there is always kidnapping. Your sense of entitlement is sickening. If there is something I can't afford I go without especially something as trivial and unnecessary as a videogame. When the horny, hungry, and tired of walking guy from the end of your street comes in your home rapes your wife/mother and or children, eats your food, then drives off in your car I'm glad to know you won't have a problem with any of it. Good day.
      Downloading a videogame is not the same as the analogies you are giving. It does not causes suffering to any human being especially when millions of units of the game are being sold already. If I downloaded Assasin's Creed III or some other blockbuster title then did it put anybody out of business? I have only two options; either download a pirated copy to play or do not play at all. The company isn't getting anything in both cases so what is the harm to anyone if I downloaded?
      ************* [ - Post Merged - ] *************
      Originally Posted by General Plot
      Awww, sounds like you got a little butt hurt there. So you're saying x86 is vulnerable due to it's hardware? That's funny, I don't remember Linux systems being as vulnerable as Windows machines (which is why most servers don't use Windows). And the only holes you'll find on a Linux box are in the software running on the platform, and has NOTHING to do with the fact it's x86. If that were the case, you'd see alot more servers running on PowerPC and other platforms.



      Oh wow, I really NEED two more gigs. Even though I've never even used half my available memory on any occasion.



      I love how you keep coming back to me, like you can't get me off your mind. Here's a handy tip: get in the bathtub and get the sand out of your vagina. Then come back and see if you can handle a discussion without throwing a tantrum.



      We can't control how people use our software, BUT we give no support for using downloaded games. In fact, our forum rules state that when someone is found to be asking for help with pirated games, they get one warning and their thread is immediately closed. Second time, they're permanently banned. Any member found trying to help that person is treated the same way (first time warned, second time banned).



      I didn't take offense, I was pointing out that I don't need lecturing on the subject, which is what you were trying to do:





      Then get a subscription to PSN+ or wait until prices come down. If that's still too much, then maybe you shouldn't have bought a console you couldn't afford games for? You can't compare it to stealing food if you're hungry. It's a games console, ie: a luxury. You don't need a PS3 to live, and it won't put dinner on your table to have one.

      Anywho, I know there's alot of haters on here that can't stand me telling it how it is. People looking for a free ride and praying the next console will let them keep stealing material. That's all almost anyone seems to care about these days. Well, I stand by my hopes in the PS4 never being hacked. Like it or lump it, I don't care. I'm not here to please anyone, but have just as much a right to my opinion and hopes as the next guy.
      Man, you are just too ignorant. How do you suppose I will get a PSN+ membership? There is no international payment system in my country! This the problem! People living in the first world countries cannot even imagine what we are going through! Moreover, downloading a game is not similar to stealing from an individual. Millions of legitimate copies are already being sold so no harm is being caused if I downloaded a single copy over here in Asia where the console was not even launched! I only have two options, either I download a backup copy or do not play at all. In both cases the company will not get any money from me. So what harm did I cause to anyone if I downloaded a copy? The harm will only be done if I can buy it and I do not buy it. At least buying a console adds up to the consoles sold you know. The reason PS2 and XBOX360 sold so well was because they were easily pirated and many kids/guys over here in Asia have one. In case of PS3 nobody could afford it so the sales have been low. If I do not buy a console like you suggested then I will be causing harm to the company by denying them a sale. Like I said earlier I have only two options either download or do not buy the console so what difference does it makes to the company? They wont be getting my money in both cases. On the contrary, if I do not buy the console at all then the company will be deprived of a console sale and I will be denied joy/pleasure. Not buying the console at all instead causes more harm to Sony and suffering to a human in case of Asia. Maybe if you broaden your horizons and mind a little more, you will understand the predicament of billions who are not living a luxurious life in the west. It is very easy to call somebody "entitled" or telling not buy the console at all but only a have-not can understand the suffering of being depraved who has to suffer just because he was born in the wrong/poor country.

    106. stevorkz
      02-25-2013
      05:53 PM
      106

      Originally Posted by cboushell
      Hey if you can't afford a car steal your neighbors, if the girl you like won't f**k you rape her, if your wife can't have children there is always kidnapping. Your sense of entitlement is sickening. If there is something I can't afford I go without especially something as trivial and unnecessary as a videogame. When the horny, hungry, and tired of walking guy from the end of your street comes in your home rapes your wife/mother and or children, eats your food, then drives off in your car I'm glad to know you won't have a problem with any of it. Good day.
      That is without a doubt, the worst analogy to explain software piracy. How on earth can you compare copying video games to rape?

      Yet you find ones sense of entitlement sickening. LOL!

    107. General Plot
      02-25-2013
      05:59 PM
      107

      Originally Posted by AsimLeonheart
      Man, you are just too ignorant. How do you suppose I will get a PSN+ membership? There is no international payment system in my country! This the problem! People living in the first world countries cannot even imagine what we are going through! Moreover, downloading a game is not similar to stealing from an individual. Millions of legitimate copies are already being sold so no harm is being caused if I downloaded a single copy over here in Asia where the console was not even launched! I only have two options, either I download a backup copy or do not play at all. In both cases the company will not get any money from me. So what harm did I cause to anyone if I downloaded a copy? The harm will only be done if I can buy it and I do not buy it. At least buying a console adds up to the consoles sold you know. The reason PS2 and XBOX360 sold so well was because they were easily pirated and many kids/guys over here in Asia have one. In case of PS3 nobody could afford it so the sales have been low. If I do not buy a console like you suggested then I will be causing harm to the company by denying them a sale. Like I said earlier I have only two options either download or do not buy the console so what difference does it makes to the company? They wont be getting my money in both cases. On the contrary, if I do not buy the console at all then the company will be deprived of a console sale and I will be denied joy/pleasure. Not buying the console at all instead causes more harm to Sony and suffering to a human in case of Asia. Maybe if you broaden your horizons and mind a little more, you will understand the predicament of billions who are not living a luxurious life in the west. It is very easy to call somebody "entitled" or telling not buy the console at all but only a have-not can understand the suffering of being depraved who has to suffer just because he was born in the wrong/poor country.
      There are sites you can buy PSN cards from. Buy a US card and make a US PSN account, redeem the card on there and voila: you can buy a PS+ subscription. And I'm sorry, but not being able to have games is not "suffering".

    108. Wolfie708
      02-25-2013
      06:04 PM
      108

      Originally Posted by General Plot
      There are sites you can buy PSN cards from. Buy a US card and make a US PSN account, redeem the card on there and voila: you can buy a PS+ subscription. And I'm sorry, but not being able to have games is not "suffering".
      Correct it is not, but I am curious to know if you have ever used any game or software that was a pirate copy?

      If you have not then you are almost unique in this day and age, but if you have then all your arguments against piracy and a console being hacked fall flat on their face.

    109. synce
      02-25-2013
      06:07 PM
      109

      The 3DS has actually been hacked by the Chinese, they're already selling carts but they only contain one ROM and can't be reflashed yet. It is taking longer for hacks to release this gen but where there's a will there's a way.

      10 years ago I'd have been completely against piracy but these days with things like online passes, day 1 DLC, and crippling DRM I'm struggling to find a reason to support any publisher. If the game industry was wiped out tomorrow I wouldn't be too upset.

    110. GregoryRasputin
      02-25-2013
      06:14 PM
      110

      Originally Posted by Wolfie708
      Correct it is not, but I am curious to know if you have ever used any game or software that was a pirate copy?

      If you have not then you are almost unique in this day and age, but if you have then all your arguments against piracy and a console being hacked fall flat on their face.
      Of course he has, there isn't a person on this forum that hasn't in some way pirated something, be it a Snes rom, a PC app, an iPhone app, an Android app, or a movie, music or premium eBook , there is no one on this thread innocent of any one of those and if anyone on this thread claims they have never done any of those, then they are a f*cking liar.

      Also on the fact of Emulators, if you are anyway involved in creating an Emulator, like it or not you are contributing to piracy, even if it is inadvertently, it is still contributing as the vast majority of Emulator users use those Emulators with pirated software.

    111. ViperMM
      02-25-2013
      06:52 PM
      111

      Originally Posted by smf
      The xbox 360 has encrypted ram & it's seven years old.

      If they make ALSR mandatory across all modules including the OS then ROP will be useless too. If the memory is encrypted well then you won't have access to a memory dump to disassemble the code, so you won't even know what code you could jump to.

      Nobody knows how to "rock systems like these" as they aren't out yet.

      I think it's laughable that people think that someone will magically hack it & stick it to the man, when there is still no 3DS homebrew & DSi homebrew is ...........
      I'd expect to see Wii-U native homebrew before the PS4 is hacked.
      The 360 was a very well designed console from a security stand point, however I doubt any Sony console will bear resemblance to any of it's security. Also encrypted ram is easily defeated too with proper know how. As to your ASLR argument there are quite a few decent white papers and even public tools to defeat it. My favorite is this one.
      http://users.ece.cmu.edu/~dbrumley/c.../docs/aslr.pdf
      As for the Ps4 not being out, it sure is out. Dev-kits shipped months ago. And to your 3ds idea (not sure how a hand held is related but hey) they have flash carts. If someone wanted to program something other than iso loading on 3ds they could. I would also expect to see Wii-U root before the Ps4 since both it's dev-kits and console in general were released way before the Ps4 launch. The main point you should take away from this is unless there is going to be a serious anti tampering mechanism (which i sincerely doubt) these consoles are going to be taken apart and ripped to shreds. That goes for both Ps4 and next gen Xbox. I believe that even with the Ps3 any n00b level person will have a hard time with this as embedded systems as crazy as these have some what of a learning curve. That said I have seen people who have made developments on this scene and I know from other places. Some of these people will make it look easy. It's not like it would be hard for anyone who has access to this hardware to exploit it. What the real question is what should be done with the hacked consoles and how can one keep sanity amongst a scene which is like a pack of wolves.
      EDIT:!jizz GrigoriRazputin

    112. etertay
      02-25-2013
      07:34 PM
      112

      the ps4..being similar to the pc architecture...may be more easy to hack.

    113. Theeze
      02-25-2013
      09:20 PM
      113

      Originally Posted by etertay
      the ps4..being similar to the pc architecture...may be more easy to hack.
      Have you not been paying attention? It's not going to be easy at all, but if it were to get hacked it would be very easy to write homebrew and port things over from the pc side.

      X86 doesn't automatically mean it's going to be hacked in less time or anything.

    114. smf
      02-26-2013
      05:36 AM
      114

      Originally Posted by ViperMM
      The 360 was a very well designed console from a security stand point, however I doubt any Sony console will bear resemblance to any of it's security. Also encrypted ram is easily defeated too with proper know how.
      You previously said that encrypted ram couldn't be done, then when I pointed out that it had been you think it's easily defeated anyway.
      There are plenty of memory encryption systems that have survived longer than ten years before being hacked.

      Originally Posted by ViperMM
      As for the Ps4 not being out, it sure is out. Dev-kits shipped months ago. And to your 3ds idea (not sure how a hand held is related but hey) they have flash carts. If someone wanted to program something other than iso loading on 3ds they could.
      Devkits aren't the same as the final retail hardware. The first devkit was a graphics card, the next was a custom PC. It's getting closer to final hardware but you have no idea what is going to happen by then.

      3ds carts are basically clones of the real carts. It was possible to do that with DSi as well. But all you can do is provide the same signed data that was on the original cart. There is no homebrew opportunity at all right now. It's like saying that hacking any optical disc system is possible, all you need is a pressing plant.

      Your best bet is to ask Nintendo to sign your homebrew. Otherwise you could try factoring the keys, if you even knew how the security worked. Then hope you're done by the heat death of the universe.

      Originally Posted by ViperMM
      As to your ASLR argument there are quite a few decent white papers and even public tools to defeat it. My favorite is this one.
      http://users.ece.cmu.edu/~dbrumley/c.../docs/aslr.pdf
      That white paper covers Privilege escalation where you already can store files and execute them, they are less relevant for a hypervisor based system that doesn't allow you to run any of your own code. None of the OS specific items are going to be relevant either. Some of them talk about storing code in BSS segments, which obviously means they assume DEP is turned off. They discuss protections that can be enabled but aren't by default in Linux for compatibility, but that is not an issue for a new console. Other protections are disabled for performance reasons, but that is also less of a problem if you can just phone up your CPU manufacturer and ask them to add some new technology for you.

      Five year old white papers are unlikely to be any help in hacking the PS4.

    115. General Plot
      02-26-2013
      08:46 AM
      115

      Originally Posted by GregoryRasputin
      Of course he has, there isn't a person on this forum that hasn't in some way pirated something, be it a Snes rom, a PC app, an iPhone app, an Android app, or a movie, music or premium eBook , there is no one on this thread innocent of any one of those and if anyone on this thread claims they have never done any of those, then they are a f*cking liar.
      Regardless on what your view of people is, it doesn't mean you know everything there is know about each person. I made a conscious decision back during the days of napster that piracy was just something I was not going to be a part of. Every piece of software or media that I own or have ever owned has been in my possession legitimately. Piracy is a major pet peeve of mine and always has been. I would have thought for as long as you've known me that you would know that much about me. You can't just claim that because I'm involved in this community that is automatically proof of guilt.

      Originally Posted by GregoryRasputin
      Also on the fact of Emulators, if you are anyway involved in creating an Emulator, like it or not you are contributing to piracy, even if it is inadvertently, it is still contributing as the vast majority of Emulator users use those Emulators with pirated software.
      PCSX2 is a project that would exist whether or not I was part of it. In fact, I didn't get into it until the version 0.7 days (which is almost 4 years after it's initial release). And with an emulator project, you don't get to choose who can use it and how they use it. You either make it available or you don't.

    116. smf
      02-26-2013
      09:17 AM
      116

      Originally Posted by General Plot
      And with an emulator project, you don't get to choose who can use it and how they use it. You either make it available or you don't.
      Which goes back to DRM. While there may be people who want to bypass DRM for reasons they feel are legitimate (owning a cd/dvd/bluray/game etc). If the DRM didn't exist then there would be a lot more people pirating.

      I would imagine that they would rather they didn't have to invest in DRM, but it is necessary for their business model. The only other option would be to not produce music/movies/games.

    117. GregoryRasputin
      02-26-2013
      10:50 AM
      117

      Originally Posted by General Plot
      Regardless on what your view of people is, it doesn't mean you know everything there is know about each person.
      Im not claiming to know everything about each person, im just making an observation on your claim about piracy being quite high in the scene and responding with the fact that no one in this thread is innocent of having some sort of pirated file in their possession.


      Originally Posted by General Plot
      Every piece of software or media that I own or have ever owned has been in my possession legitimately. Piracy is a major pet peeve of mine and always has been.
      So you are saying that you have never downloaded a Rom for Snes, Nes, Mega Drive, C64 or any of the Emulators that use Roms ?
      Because if you have never used an Emulator or Rom, then you've missed out on a lot of fun, i personally don't download games for the PS3, Xbox 360 or Wii, but i am guilty of downloading Roms for Snes, Mega Drive and a few other Emulators and i find it extremely hard to believe that there would be anyone in this entire forum who hasn't.


      Originally Posted by General Plot
      I would have thought for as long as you've known me that you would know that much about me.
      I have never seen you use a Pirated PS2 game on your Emulator, but i do find it extremely hard to believe that you have never used another Emulator in your entire life, one that requires roms


      Im not judging you, just trying to make sense of your statement about not wanting the PS4 to be hacked, which is something i never thought you would say.

    118. Theeze
      02-26-2013
      11:47 AM
      118

      [MENTION=25636]General Plot[/MENTION]

      You've never downloaded a song? movie? roms?

      Hard to imagine when you're clearly on a site called ps3hax or beta testing an emulator where it's purpose is to play isos. Never jailbroken an iOS device? Or root an android device?

      To say you've never pirated anything in your life is a pretty bold statement.

    119. General Plot
      02-26-2013
      11:48 AM
      119

      Originally Posted by GregoryRasputin
      So you are saying that you have never downloaded a Rom for Snes, Nes, Mega Drive, C64 or any of the Emulators that use Roms ?
      Because if you have never used an Emulator or Rom, then you've missed out on a lot of fun, i personally don't download games for the PS3, Xbox 360 or Wii, but i am guilty of downloading Roms for Snes, Mega Drive and a few other Emulators and i find it extremely hard to believe that there would be anyone in this entire forum who hasn't.
      Actually with 8/16 bit gaming, I've always preferred the original machines. I still have my Sega CDX (which is a combo Genesis/Megadrive and SegaCD/MegaCD). To be honest though, I haven't touched a game from that era in almost a decade.

      Originally Posted by GregoryRasputin
      I have never seen you use a Pirated PS2 game on your Emulator, but i do find it extremely hard to believe that you have never used another Emulator in your entire life, one that requires roms
      The only emulators I ever got into were EPSXE, NullDC, Chankast, etc... And they all have the ability to use original games.

      Originally Posted by GregoryRasputin
      Im not judging you, just trying to make sense of your statement about not wanting the PS4 to be hacked, which is something i never thought you would say.
      I know. I hear myself saying it, and it makes me cringe, but we both know the only real development in the PS3 scene are new backup managers. Compare it to the 360 scene, which actually has more than piracy on it's side. It's why I took my 3.55 KMEAW and put it on OFW. There just wasn't anything there for people like me who weren't in it for the piracy aspect.

      Originally Posted by harryoke
      So you are from Plymouth and you're not a pirate....that's like a Welshman who dosnt like sheep or a Scotsman that dosnt drink....and I don't believe you for a second
      I'm originally a New Yorker and only moved here a few years ago. That said, location has nothing to do with it.

      Originally Posted by Theeze
      You've never downloaded a song? movie? roms?
      Only ones I've bought (ie: itunes).

      Originally Posted by Theeze
      Hard to imagine when you're clearly on a site called ps3hax or beta testing an emulator where it's purpose is to play isos. Never jailbroken an iOS device? Or root an android device?
      Believe it or not there are ethical users of emulators and hacked consoles. I jailbroke my iphone 5. And you know what's on it? I bought IntelliscreenX, put some of my own ringtones on it, got SBSettings and kill background. That's it. All my apps on it are paid for.

      Originally Posted by Theeze
      To say you've never pirated anything in your life is a pretty bold statement.
      It's one I can sincerely make.

    120. stevorkz
      02-26-2013
      11:54 AM
      120

      Originally Posted by General Plot
      PCSX2 is a project that would exist whether or not I was part of it. In fact, I didn't get into it until the version 0.7 days (which is almost 4 years after it's initial release). And with an emulator project, you don't get to choose who can use it and how they use it. You either make it available or you don't.
      The point is, whether you started PCSX2 or not, the fact that you contributed to it in anyway means you contributed to piracy as 90% of PCSX2 users are pirates.

      Its not at all meant to be personal, we're just trying to bring to light the irony of your views with the ps4

    121. General Plot
      02-26-2013
      12:01 PM
      121

      Originally Posted by harryoke
      And you can tell your a yank as you don't get British humour
      (my daughter says I'm not worthy to talk to you as she loves Americans and her favourite place is new york)
      Funny thing is, I moved here to marry the lead developer of PCSX2's sister. Crazy as it seems, me and refraction got to be good friends back when I first got into the project (which was around 2005) and it eventually led to me coming here to meet his sister in 2007, and the next year I moved here to marry her.

    122. stuck?
      02-26-2013
      12:18 PM
      122

      in the words of Happy Gilmore:

      "Gold jacket, green jacket? Who gives a shit!" That's basically my thought on the back and forth aspect of who pirates and who doesn't and why not.

      This whole cloud gaming thing just may thwart piracy for a little while. Only time will tell; and nothing is even out yet so all of our claims and thoughts are just here say at the moment. For all we know, we could all be wrong.

    123. malex
      02-26-2013
      07:41 PM
      123

      Originally Posted by Solotime
      Why so much hate in here? Where's the love at?

      p.s free hug's on me
      Love? I think it died with f/w 3.15

      I think we're assuming too much here. Seems that people are willing to bet their left testicle that the ps4 will be difficult or easy to hack... I have no such faith either way, but what I do have faith in is that it will most certainly NOT be impossible. Actually, going by what history has taught us, it will eventually get hacked; of course there's always a first time (assuming it doesn't get hacked), but for the time being I'm thinking it will just take a few (2 - 3) years.

      On another note, let's get it out of our heads that piracy is understandable. It's not, and though sony/ms/ninty and the d*uche publishers deserve it, it's not our place to bring down the karmic hammer on them. By no means am I asking anyone to stop pirating though, I personally get a kick out of people who don't buy ps3 games; makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside, like a shot of whiskey.

      I do agree with [MENTION=25636]General Plot[/MENTION] on one thing, and that is what I perceive our mutual dislike for warez kiddies. I despise these little pr*cks that have this mistaken sense of entitlement, and that will call any contribution junk as long as it doesn't help them play their isoz.

    124. ViperMM
      02-27-2013
      07:16 AM
      124

      Originally Posted by malex

      On another note, let's get it out of our heads that piracy is understandable. It's not, and though sony/ms/ninty and the d*uche publishers deserve it, it's not our place to bring down the karmic hammer on them. By no means am I asking anyone to stop pirating though, I personally get a kick out of people who don't buy ps3 games; makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside, like a shot of whiskey.
      I don't think they deserve it. Theft is theft in all forms. I would stake a claim it will be easy to hack, however the people who I would believe will hack it have some sense about them. The console hack will not be released right away. It will also not be an absolute thing. Example would be they will not release cex2dex for a few years after release.

    125. malex
      02-27-2013
      06:10 PM
      125

      Originally Posted by ViperMM
      I don't think they deserve it. Theft is theft in all forms. I would stake a claim it will be easy to hack, however the people who I would believe will hack it have some sense about them. The console hack will not be released right away. It will also not be an absolute thing. Example would be they will not release cex2dex for a few years after release.
      You don't believe sony deserves it? if sony were a person I would want him/her to burn in hell, be sent to heaven for 2 weeks... then dragged back down to hell, but that's just me.

      I have no problems with devs holding out on the community at large, as long as it's not because they want to milk peeps. In other words, I rather they keep their secrets, than for them to release it and do like all the re-drm a-holes did... that was quite honestly the lowest thing I've seen and I hope I never have to witness something like that again.

      However, 2 things I should note, I don't like/believe the innocent should be punished together with the guilty, and I don't think it's right for devs to tease the community with projects they don't intend to release. If you a dev wants to keep their project from the public, it's his right.... but don't try to dangle it in front of the community like the proverbial carrot on a stick either.

    126. smf
      03-01-2013
      07:06 AM
      126

      Originally Posted by malex
      You don't believe sony deserves it? if sony were a person I would want him/her to burn in hell, be sent to heaven for 2 weeks... then dragged back down to hell, but that's just me.
      That says more about you than them. Sony are people, when games don't sell well then people lose their jobs. Most games aren't even made by Sony, so you're punishing the good with the bad.

    127. malex
      03-01-2013
      05:24 PM
      127

      Originally Posted by smf
      That says more about you than them. Sony are people, when games don't sell well then people lose their jobs. Most games aren't even made by Sony, so you're punishing the good with the bad.
      Of course that says more about me then it does about them. I did not give any reasons as to why I despise them so, but I'll just assume that other forum goers are smart enough to understand why, at this point in time, I as a gamer would have such disdain for sony. Whether they agree with me or not, anybody should understand why.

      As far as punishing goes, I'm not doing anything to anybody. How exactly am I punishing anybody according to you? by pirating games? you'll find I don't pirate... merely because I don't want to. Maybe when I beat all the ps3 games I own (even the 4 that are still shrink wrapped) I'll start downloading games, or do you mean by showing support for other pirates? or do you mean by not buying games?

      In any case, f*ck sony, sadly I know I won't have my way and have them disappear in the next 1 - 2 generations. Still I hope they do, and I'll rejoice anytime somebody does something shiesty to them.

      On the bright side, I'll be an observer of any future d*uchebaggery on sony's part. The only reason I feel so strongly about it now, is because as a ps3 owner I feel duped. Next gen I'll just be limited to feeling sorry for those that ignored history.

    128. japsander
      03-01-2013
      06:08 PM
      128

      Originally Posted by smf
      That says more about you than them. Sony are people, when games don't sell well then people lose their jobs. Most games aren't even made by Sony, so you're punishing the good with the bad.
      SOPA and PIPA are people too. are you saddened that they failed? im pretty sure that people will have lost their roles when they didnt succeed

      3rd party publishers generally multiplatform anyway so game sales are still pretty strong even if not on a single console

    129. oPolo
      03-01-2013
      06:32 PM
      129

      Originally Posted by General Plot
      Actually with 8/16 bit gaming, I've always preferred the original machines. I still have my Sega CDX (which is a combo Genesis/Megadrive and SegaCD/MegaCD). To be honest though, I haven't touched a game from that era in almost a decade.


      The only emulators I ever got into were EPSXE, NullDC, Chankast, etc... And they all have the ability to use original games.


      I know. I hear myself saying it, and it makes me cringe, but we both know the only real development in the PS3 scene are new backup managers. Compare it to the 360 scene, which actually has more than piracy on it's side. It's why I took my 3.55 KMEAW and put it on OFW. There just wasn't anything there for people like me who weren't in it for the piracy aspect.


      I'm originally a New Yorker and only moved here a few years ago. That said, location has nothing to do with it.


      Only ones I've bought (ie: itunes).


      Believe it or not there are ethical users of emulators and hacked consoles. I jailbroke my iphone 5. And you know what's on it? I bought IntelliscreenX, put some of my own ringtones on it, got SBSettings and kill background. That's it. All my apps on it are paid for.


      It's one I can sincerely make.
      What does the xbox 360 scene have in term of development that we don't have o0 speaking of anything else than backupmanagers.
      I happened to end up with 2x ps3 instead of 2x xbox'es, as I find the multimedia app on the ps3 (showtime), far more superior to any xbox media center / playback app.
      I don't want to bash you, I just want to know if there is something that I have completely missed lol.

    130. danguy2009
      03-01-2013
      08:39 PM
      130

      I used to be a big pirater of Xbox games but as soon as AP2.5 and LT3.0 came out I felt like I may aswell wait it out for new games to become cheap and buy them secondhand instead of having to buy a specific burner and specific discs and possibly extra tools for future drives. I guess Ms won but the end result is still the same, the devs dont get any share of what I buy.

      I thought of a way MS could possibly combat piracy, well online at least. If they somehow incorportated the CPUkey into the drive firmware so that the whole firmware cannot be decrypted. And to stop people hacking the system to get the CPUkey and reverse they could then hash the drive firmware like they do with keyvaults so that nothing could be changed. Of course piracy could still exist on a hardmodded RGH type system but then they could guarantee that nobody is pirating and going online if they kept their current system of stopping exploited consoles from logging in.

    131. malex
      03-02-2013
      12:58 AM
      131

      Originally Posted by japsander
      SOPA and PIPA are people too. are you saddened that they failed? im pretty sure that people will have lost their roles when they didnt succeed
      Cue the sad violin music LOL!

      Originally Posted by japsander
      3rd party publishers generally multiplatform anyway so game sales are still pretty strong even if not on a single console
      Which is why I'm very happy with Namco for spreading out the Tales of and Ace Combat series. Also seeing Kojima not be a whiner when it comes to releasing his games non-sony consoles is awesome. Shame I'll definitely miss out on the God of War, Uncharted and a few other superb series that will stay with sony for the foreseeable future.

      Originally Posted by danguy2009
      I thought of a way MS could possibly combat piracy, well online at least. If they somehow incorportated the CPUkey into the drive firmware so that the whole firmware cannot be decrypted. And to stop people hacking the system to get the CPUkey and reverse they could then hash the drive firmware like they do with keyvaults so that nothing could be changed. Of course piracy could still exist on a hardmodded RGH type system but then they could guarantee that nobody is pirating and going online if they kept their current system of stopping exploited consoles from logging in.
      That might work, but in the end any security measure implemented to fight piracy, is like putting a bandaid on an eternally bleeding wound. It may stop the bleeding for a bit of time, but you'll have to replace the bandaid sooner rather than later. That's why I think the best way to stop the piracy that should matter, by this I mean people who CAN buy games, but don't want to, is by making owning games worth their while. To that end, I see some merit in the online pass crap, but probably 1 time use codes for ingame items will be seen with more accepting eyes.

      Also the prices for new games should come down. $60 is a bit steep, and while my parents dropped a pretty penny everytime they bought me an SNES or a NES game, now that I earn my own money all I can say is that I feel bad for being such a brat when it came to gaming. My remedy is quite simple though, waiting. Eventually all games drop, that's why I never payed more than $25 for any of my games.... except for Trinity Universe which I bought for like $50... USED, but I didn't have any choice since I couldn't find a copy anywhere else.