[Señor_Striatum]

Hypothetically speaking for all moral and legal reasons….I would like to gather the opinions of those here who are intelligent and generally outside the medical field since it is the medical field that created this situation. I have been thinking about a situation that my friend “swim” is in. You see swim has been a drug addict for majority of his life. The problem is that he is a high functioning drug addict so no one knows it (has maintained many jobs, college with 3.80 GPA, family, ect.). It is a problem because now it is affecting his health.

So swim has a complicated drug addiction that involves the abuse of multiple drugs in combination and otherwise…any drug so long as stimulation is occurring. Things got particularly out of hand for a total of four years where cocaine was mostly used along with MDMA and heroin in the last year of the four. Then a war broke out in the location of Mexico where swim would buy his drugs and he was forced to quit the severe addiction. To compensate for withdrawal and lack of stimulation Swim turned to pharmaceuticals available locally and in Mexico. That is when he found the one drug he needed to become level…Tramadol.

Tramadol is an interesting drug in that its mechanism of action not only involves opiate receptor activation but also induces an up-regulation of serotonin (like antidepressants) and inhibition reuptake of norepinephrine (so increased energy relative to most opiates). It was the perfect drug on account that, back then, it was advertised as not being addictive. Well it is addictive…and is accompanied by severe withdrawal symptoms comparable and often more severe than heroin withdrawal on account of its complex action.

So he has been happily on tramadol with the occasional narcotic use for close to three years. However, swim has recently been experiencing some negative side effects associated with extreme tramadol use (fish eye lense effect, humming in ears, brain “zaps”, restless leg syndrome) mostly when he forgets even a single dose. Swim now takes an average of 600-800mg daily when the recommended dose for pain is at a max of 400mg for no more than 3 months. So he is weaning himself off but doesn’t know if he should get completely off for he may start using hard street drugs. He doesn’t know if he can lightly use tram either.

So the question is, having gone through countless withdrawals and tramadol being the worst, should he quit considering that he will more than likely turn to something heavier? He is mostly experiencing problems when he doesn’t take it and the pills are relatively cheap (compared to street drugs). I highly doubt he can quit but perhaps he can calm it a little but likely to the expense of using another drug in its place. Should he alternate drugs while using enough tram to avoid withdrawal so that various neurotransmitters are abused for only short periods of time? This is what I am recommending but I am not sure...

yes the best things is for him to stop entirely but this will not happen... Withdrawal is accompanied by seizures and other life threatening events.

[ohhwun]

He could try slowly weaning himself off of it. What he needs most is help from friends and family. Not in an "OMG let's get you on Intervention" kind of way but more like "I'm gonna make damn sure to help you get off this sh*t." Just keeping an eye out helps more than forcing someone to stop.

Someone like that wouldn't want to feel attacked but more like babysat from my experience. Attacking them just makes them feel like doing it more because of the stress they experience.

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[Señor_Striatum]

Originally Posted by ohhwun He could try slowly weaning himself off of it. What he needs most is help from friends and family. Not in an "OMG let's get you on Intervention" kind of way but more like "I'm gonna make damn sure to help you get off this sh*t." Just keeping an eye out helps more than forcing someone to stop. Someone like that wouldn't want to feel attacked but more like babysat from my experience. Attacking them just makes them feel like doing it more because of the stress they experience. Sent from my SPH-M900 using Tapatalk

Yeah I agree with your approach. His mom has no clue that he is the way he is. She has caught him smoking dope as a kid but that's about it. I am sure he does not want to stress her out or make her worry for she is sick herself (not drug related).

He also cant get official help for he actually helps people indirectly who are in his situation himself! So he would lose his job if anyone found out. Kind of s#itty how the US deals with drug addiction and how US families have been conditioned to respond to drug abuse. I am thinking one alternative is for him to try out the ibogaine treatment in Mexico. Supposedly can help withdrawal in just 48 hours.

[tenoob]

Originally Posted by Señor_Striatum Yeah I agree with your approach. His mom has no clue that he is the way he is. She has caught him smoking dope as a kid but that's about it. I am sure he does not want to stress her out or make her worry for she is sick herself (not drug related). He also cant get official help for he actually helps people indirectly who are in his situation himself! So he would lose his job if anyone found out. Kind of s#itty how the US deals with drug addiction and how US families have been conditioned to respond to drug abuse. I am thinking one alternative is for him to try out the ibogaine treatment in Mexico. Supposedly can help withdrawal in just 48 hours.

Thats ****in sad dude, I hope Ron Paul becomes president and our drug laws
here become similar to those in Portugal. Legalized drugs and free rehab.

I wouldnt know what to do if I were in your shoes, and you are a damn good friend. I hope everything works out, your friends health will be in my hopes and prayers.

[KillerBug]

I have had more than my share of friends addicted...no one to tramadol, mostly to H, C, and Meth. They have all tried to quit multiple times, and only 5 of them have been able to quit using hard drugs.

The first two died of overdoses after months of AA and severe relapse...obviously not the way you want to quit using.
The third got locked up for traffic...while there are some drugs in there, there really are not enough to keep someone addicted. Again, not an ideal situation; he will be over 60 by the time he gets out.
The last two did gradual step-down programs...both from H. They slowly reduced dosage over the course of almost a year...eventually stepping down to Vicodin, which they spent a long time on as well. Last, they both went to massive doses of THC. They are both still potheads...but it isn't physical addition...they just can't exist without drugs anymore because of what that s**t did to their brains. They are both in serious risk tho...if that supply dries up, they will probably start climbing the ladder again.

As for myself, it was Crystal...backed down to C and slowly lowered the dose, then spent about a month on various forms of portable real estate with enough trees for a forest, then backed down to weed only, then gave that up too. It wasn't easy...and it still isn't easy...but at least I didn't change my whole brain to the point that I need drugs forever just to get by...Crystal is terrible if you keep using, but opiates are almost as bad even if you quit.

I have heard some great things about ibogaine...but I don't know anyone who has tried it. Just be really careful about how you introduce the idea; you don't want your friend thinking that you are forcing it on him. Opiates change people in ways you wouldn't expect...and I honestly don't know if ibogaine does a true reset for this, or only for the chemical addition. It might just be that your friend will still need something...but a friend who needs weed to cope with life is a lot better than a friend in a box.

[tenoob]

Originally Posted by KillerBug I have had more than my share of friends addicted...no one to tramadol, mostly to H, C, and Meth. They have all tried to quit multiple times, and only 5 of them have been able to quit using hard drugs. The first two died of overdoses after months of AA and severe relapse...obviously not the way you want to quit using. The third got locked up for traffic...while there are some drugs in there, there really are not enough to keep someone addicted. Again, not an ideal situation; he will be over 60 by the time he gets out. The last two did gradual step-down programs...both from H. They slowly reduced dosage over the course of almost a year...eventually stepping down to Vicodin, which they spent a long time on as well. Last, they both went to massive doses of THC. They are both still potheads...but it isn't physical addition...they just can't exist without drugs anymore because of what that s**t did to their brains. They are both in serious risk tho...if that supply dries up, they will probably start climbing the ladder again. As for myself, it was Crystal...backed down to C and slowly lowered the dose, then spent about a month on various forms of portable real estate with enough trees for a forest, then backed down to weed only, then gave that up too. It wasn't easy...and it still isn't easy...but at least I didn't change my whole brain to the point that I need drugs forever just to get by...Crystal is terrible if you keep using, but opiates are almost as bad even if you quit. I have heard some great things about ibogaine...but I don't know anyone who has tried it. Just be really careful about how you introduce the idea; you don't want your friend thinking that you are forcing it on him. Opiates change people in ways you wouldn't expect...and I honestly don't know if ibogaine does a true reset for this, or only for the chemical addition. It might just be that your friend will still need something...but a friend who needs weed to cope with life is a lot better than a friend in a box.

Meth turns people into klepto ****roaches, I'd rather be a lazy ****in stoner than a roach wandering the night in the shadows avoiding bright lights and stealing peoples things and pawning them off for more of the drug.

I hope your friends are also pot farmers, endless supply ftw.
Tweek is just as wack as crack, I wouldnt want anyone I love or respect touching that ****, its hard enough watching a friend I consider a brother do that **** with his 'customers'. I dont see how he can live with himself selling those roach crystals ugh.

[itskamel]

let me tell you from experience. prison was the best thing that happend to me. it got me clean and gave me a new start.

[KillerBug]

Originally Posted by tenoob Meth turns people into klepto ****roaches, I'd rather be a lazy ****in stoner than a roach wandering the night in the shadows avoiding bright lights and stealing peoples things and pawning them off for more of the drug. I hope your friends are also pot farmers, endless supply ftw. Tweek is just as wack as crack, I wouldnt want anyone I love or respect touching that ****, its hard enough watching a friend I consider a brother do that **** with his 'customers'. I dont see how he can live with himself selling those roach crystals ugh.

Yeah...meth is terrible...if it was a choice between quitting H or quitting crystal, then crystal is probably better...if it was a choice between continuing H or continuing crystal, then H is probably better.

...Of course, I never would have started crystal if it were not for the fact that weed is illegal.

[Señor_Striatum]

Originally Posted by KillerBug I have had more than my share of friends addicted...no one to tramadol, mostly to H, C, and Meth. They have all tried to quit multiple times, and only 5 of them have been able to quit using hard drugs. The first two died of overdoses after months of AA and severe relapse...obviously not the way you want to quit using. The third got locked up for traffic...while there are some drugs in there, there really are not enough to keep someone addicted. Again, not an ideal situation; he will be over 60 by the time he gets out. The last two did gradual step-down programs...both from H. They slowly reduced dosage over the course of almost a year...eventually stepping down to Vicodin, which they spent a long time on as well. Last, they both went to massive doses of THC. They are both still potheads...but it isn't physical addition...they just can't exist without drugs anymore because of what that s**t did to their brains. They are both in serious risk tho...if that supply dries up, they will probably start climbing the ladder again. As for myself, it was Crystal...backed down to C and slowly lowered the dose, then spent about a month on various forms of portable real estate with enough trees for a forest, then backed down to weed only, then gave that up too. It wasn't easy...and it still isn't easy...but at least I didn't change my whole brain to the point that I need drugs forever just to get by...Crystal is terrible if you keep using, but opiates are almost as bad even if you quit. I have heard some great things about ibogaine...but I don't know anyone who has tried it. Just be really careful about how you introduce the idea; you don't want your friend thinking that you are forcing it on him. Opiates change people in ways you wouldn't expect...and I honestly don't know if ibogaine does a true reset for this, or only for the chemical addition. It might just be that your friend will still need something...but a friend who needs weed to cope with life is a lot better than a friend in a box.

Yeah Meth is pretty bad man. All of my research has focused on the effects of methamphetamine actually. It is interesting to say though that as far as rats are concerned meth is not as bad is it is made out be. The detrimental effects can almost be entirely recovered after 3 months of not using. Dont know for humans though

So yeah pretty much for swim's case his tramadol is like your and your friends weed. It is not nearly as bad when he is taking it just much worse when he is not. The only reason he is considering the idea to quit is on behalf of his health. The fact is that this is the most stable I have seen him and so I am wondering if quiting is even the answer. Why not slow down but not quit. Weed isnt going to do it for him because his cannabinoids are one of the few transmitters that are functioning normal.

I personally am also not at liberty to discuss what I have done and what not but hypothetically I would say hallucinogens are the way to go. Low potential for addiction (exception of MDMA) and can be overwhelmingly rewarding. In regards to the Ibogaine I am not entirely sure if it does help with Tramadol seeing how it is such a weird drug.
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Originally Posted by KillerBug Yeah...meth is terrible...if it was a choice between quitting H or quitting crystal, then crystal is probably better...if it was a choice between continuing H or continuing crystal, then H is probably better. ...Of course, I never would have started crystal if it were not for the fact that weed is illegal.

As is the case for majority of those in the drug consuming capital.

[KillerBug]

I wish your friend all the best...hopefully he can step down his dosages gradually until he can use a non-addictive substitute to help with the final kick.