[sandungas]

Ada, i have been reading all your messages from days ago (public, private, and all your last edits in the wiki) and now i understand you most of what you said

I taked notes of lot of things that we need to discuss, but by now i know how to order the page better

The point is that all this X0/X7 are not real CATEGORY's... but in fact are different contents... we can say that are "subcategoryes" of HG... but this is not very intuitive (because subcategories dont exist)
The most correct way to explain it is by saying that are "speciall contents" identifyed by this "speciall flags" inside ATTRIBUTE

Because this... the better place for all this explains in the page is inside the ATTRIBUTE section... so i will move all X0/X7 related info there
It will be better to have all this X0/X7 toghether and not spreaded between CATEGORY and ATTRIBUTE

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I had no time to experiment or to see file examples, but now i know what you did and i can test some things more "targeted"

Im still not sure if the 4º byte must be readed as little endian (not in binary) because all the other combinations can be additions of the flags 25 (value 1), flag 26 (value 2), and flag 27 (value 4)
01 = flag 25
02 = flag 26
03 = flag 25 + 26
04 = flag 27
05 = flag 25 + flag 27
06 = flag 26 + flag 27
07 = flag 25 + flag 26 + flag 27

From X1 to X7 can be done with this 3 flags

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but you said you replaced all this files in the internall HDD to see them all at the same time ?

Playstation 3
minis
Playstation 2
Playstation
X1: -
X2: -
X0: PCEngine
X3: -
X4: NEOGEO
X5: -
X6: -
X7: -

this is the order you see them in XMB ?... when you press square are ordered inside folders ?... are you sure this order doesnt depends of the date/time when was installed ? (for this last question there in an option to order the contents chronologically in side menu... make some changes there to see if his positions changes)


I will probably ask you more questions later, but im going to order the wiki page a bit now


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Here are all the grey "mini-icons" (are semitransparent so are a bit darker in the PS3)
Are extracted from explore_category_game.rco (but also are duplicated in explore_plugin_full.rco)
The bad news (and the good news) is that we have all them... there are not more contents with "mini-icons" in "Game" column
The only one left in this image is "PSvita", but his icon has no importance, is not in this image because this ones was extracted from 3.41 firmware
The problem is we have "something" (1 or 2 flags) chronologically implemented before NeoGeo that has no "mini-icons"

[Lady Anne Blunt]

I ll make more test on ps3 (for that binary/ little endian i already did somes but need more complete) but from laboratory side:
01 00 60 04 = X4
01 00 60 14 = X4 but telling this bits is reserved
From laboratory side, it s the warning windows giving me the name of the category, not the bit number (even they are similar)
Otherwise when loading on my xmb...i ll still trying to understand

Test were with severall minis (10 or so) and SFO Test Tool of Deroad ( and because this one can boot and refresh the SFO, it changed folder couples of time)
ABout the folder and date creation, i checked but the date creation isn t what s make that position folder (format)

[sandungas]

yes after reading a bit i understood you are using the warning errors (format_num=* and... reserved bits) to identify them

I noted all the examples you wrote but maybe are too much to discuss one by one (and probably some ones are things that you realized later)
Have not tested/seen myself, so im not 100% sure if the ATTRIBUTE table must be rebuild (separating the fourth byte in hexadecimal values)
I prefer not to make big changes in the page before im 100% sure about the theory is correct (and this one seems valid, but im not 100% sure... another example from a "officiall" content can be decisive)

The point is this hexadecimal values can be done with combinations of flags (in binary)... we have from X1 to X7 that can be done with different additions of flag Nº 25 (00 00 00 01), Nº 26 (00 00 00 02), and Nº 27 (00 00 00 04)

After this (if you want to make an "8")... you have to use flag Nº 28 (00 00 00 08) and this gives you an "reserved bit error"... maybe this flag is used for other feature... maybe is reserved... maybe is an error, we cant be sure

And the next one (if you want to make an "9") you need to use flag Nº 25 (00 00 00 01) + flag Nº 28 (00 00 00 08)
The flag Nº25 (00 00 00 01) defines the content as X1 (you return to the beggining)
And flag Nº28 (00 00 00 08) gives you the "reserved bit error"

So its clear for me that whatever this X0/X7 are refered.... only is valid if using flags smaller than Nº 27 (00 00 00 04)

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Btw... i just cleaned-up a bit the page (mostly the tables, that are more intuitive now), the ones for "CATEGORY in HDD" and "Parameters Table" are pretty nice for me (both matches in severall ways, both has all the 18 different CATEGORY's in HDD listed)

There is an "easy" thing is not documented yet.... the "PP" format
We need an example of one of this PARAM.SFO (is a PSP game when displayed in XMB inside a bubble)
And we need to fill his "PP" column in the "Parameters Tabe" ---> http://www.ps3devwiki.com/wiki/PARAM...rameters_Table

Can somebody do it ? (uploading the PARAM.SFO here is enought)

Edit:
Btw... this "PP" file example is needed, i bet it contains new parameters not documented (e.g. something like PREINSTALL_PSP) or something common with "PSvita" for the transfer/preinstall feature

[antiviruz]

please some tell me how to Hex Dead Space 2 plase !!!!

[sandungas]

Originally Posted by antiviruz please some tell me how to Hex Dead Space 2 plase !!!!

Explain what you want to do with it... and upload his PARAM.SFO and i will mark the areas you need to modify

[Lady Anne Blunt]

Fews test (some i already did fews days ago but to confirm i did again )
Under same game: Deroad test tool SFO (because the eboot can boot even under X category when minis eboot are stuck and need to be install again)
Same sfo with: different value/flag ( i ll post them after also) and different title ( for easy visual and be sur it s the right sfo such as: 11test, 12test ...)
Refresh time to time the folder classification (by format) and in a "random" (to avoid that possible "Sort by Creation Date") and of course different 4 byte:

Other games (minis or NEOGEO) are already installed to have all the possible folder, so for example, "test26" went to the same folder to "X6" ( with 06 as 4 byte value) or "test14" went to the same folder than X4 (where there are already NEOGEO game from previous link and one other X4 hand made)

Click here to see full text

22 00 60 08: go ps3 folder
22 00 60 09: ps3
22 00 60 14: X4
22 00 60 10 :X0
22 00 60 26: X6
22 00 60 73: X3
22 00 60 11: X1
22 00 60 12: X2

I ll edit after more test, add the flag used and order them (and to avoid my computer shut down problem, use here as backup draft)

Click here to see full text

4bythe+Flag value (to compare in same post)
00 = NO flag---------------------X0PCEngine
01 = N25------------------------X1
02 = N26------------------------X2
03 = N25+N26-------------------X3
04 = N27------------------------X4NEOGEO
05 = N25+N27-------------------X5
06 = N26+N27----- -------------X6
07 = N25+N26+N27--------------X7
08 = N28-----------------------PS3
09 = N25+N28------------------PS3
10 = N29-----------------------X0PCEngine
11 = N25+29--------------------X1
12 = N26+N29-------------------X2
14 = N27+29--------------------X4
58 = N28+N29+31--------------PS3
73 = N25+N26+N29+N30+N31----X3
A0 = N30+N32------------------X0
Still more to do

This test/ value are not really important because we already have the "real" flag for X0 to X7 and it can be really confusing if the 4 byte description on the wiki is changed but to end this question of the way 4 bytes is used value i ll make more test.
there are one other possible result than PS3 or X category folder, if the sfo is more weirdo (but not broken if i remember right) and with minis game structure , in that case it ll be classify as MINIS but i ll make more test for that also.
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Previous note about X category were 99% wrong but i still think there are olds category, but used "recently" in FW (with the flag N22 in 2009 for PCENGINE?) but they messed up somewhere ( X1 and probably X2 already used before X0, X3 can have been "cancel" and continue with X4)
X2 is probably used inside the 1P eboot ( will check soon this)/ X3 can be something like sega oldies games collection but finally release as ps3 games.
PSP (fw 6.39) also have "only" 4 differents folders ( appear automatically even without any NEOGEO or PCENGINE game, i ll see soon also if i can trigger others to appear):
PSP
Playstation
PCEngine
NEOGEO

[sandungas]

Originally Posted by Lady Anne Blunt Click here to see full text 22 00 60 08: go ps3 folder 22 00 60 09: ps3 22 00 60 14: X4 22 00 60 10 :X0 22 00 60 26: X6 22 00 60 73: X3 22 00 60 11: X1 22 00 60 12: X2 Click here to see full text 4bythe+Flag value (to compare in same post) 00 = NO flag---------------------X0PCEngine 01 = N25------------------------X1 02 = N26------------------------X2 03 = N25+N26-------------------X3 04 = N27------------------------X4NEOGEO 05 = N25+N27-------------------X5 06 = N26+N27----- -------------X6 07 = N25+N26+N27--------------X7 08 = N28-----------------------PS3 09 = N25+N28------------------PS3 10 = N29-----------------------X0PCEngine 11 = N25+29--------------------X1 12 = N26+N29-------------------X2 14 = N27+29--------------------X4 58 = N28+N29+31--------------PS3 73 = N25+N26+N29+N30+N31----X3 A0 = N30+N32------------------X0 Still more to do

I think with this tests and your previous ones is enought, it seems is the "character" most to the right the one related with X1/X7, and all them needs X0 (flag Nº22)
The only strange thing for me is with ** ** 20 *9 (this 9 is using the flag for X1... so i supossed the system identifyes it as X1)

An i say "character" because this is hex... so A B C D E F are valid values too

But in the end... i think this has no importance, because we know that this method to order them in hex only works before ** ** ** 20 *7 (8 is not valid.. and after 8 none is valid)
Maybe is something still not fully implemented by sony, but by now this is what we got

The bad thing is there are not more examples of this "reserved subcategories trigged by ATTRIBUTE" so we need to wait for sony or call them to fill the table

---------------------------------------------
To end this (by now)... i imagined a way to ADD this information to the table, using the columns we added at the right (Flag Nº... and Required Flag Nº)

Using this columns can be added new rows like combinations of flags (e.g: 1+2+3+4+5 etc...), is the better way to do it because i always refuse to erase old info (mostly the structure of the table, because there was not old info in the fourth byte)
I only erase old info when there is new one that its updated (or verifyed when the old one was speculation)
For the people that is reading this and thought to edit the page... do it freely, trying always to add more info (or updating the old one)
*There is lot of speculation that needs to be updated/erased, and lot of sections that needs better examples (i have lot of grammar errors, and my english is bad to summarize concepts)

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Btw i think the license is the key to understand this... all this X0/X7 seems related with contents that uses his own license (lets say that the originall company dont accepts the sony license... or sony offers them a different way to distribute his games keeping his own license)
Is the common think between NeoGeo and PCengine, both has his own license, and the sony one turned down
Is something implemented to be used in a long term with other companyes ?

[Lady Anne Blunt]

I notice again the license hidden on xmb (with the flag N23 you found), and from laboratory side, it seems also important fr the system to identify if it s classic HG or X category.
What you said make sense for me, but also and it confirm your theory, X1 (inside eboot.pbp, and probably X2 somewhere else) is already used by the system but isn t suppose to be visible on the xmb.
And as you said, the 4 bythe is still fine, only may be a little cosmetic/visual edit for the flag column (to make them smaller) and reduce the ATTRIBUTE for Speciall Content ( because i wrote too much, may be only shorter and more clear )
Only X2 and perhaps X3 can be still waiting for little more infos.

With monster sfo, there are one other possible result (so not going to ps3 or X category folder) but following the game structure (different to the Unknown cemetery folder for broken data), i ll make more test for that.

I already messed up a lot on PARAM.SFO wiki page so i m going to a different page soon, still one of your page
I ll try to clean my sentences about ATTRIBUTE for Speciall Content (but not sur if i ll not make even worst )
Please delete if you have any doubt and thanks you for all the news displays and infos on SFO page.

[sandungas]

Originally Posted by Lady Anne Blunt I notice again the license hidden on xmb (with the flag N23 you found), and from laboratory side, it seems also important fr the system to identify if it s classic HG or X category.

Well, this was only an idea, maybe i was too much convinced of it but im not sure, is a bit weird that there are some "unknown" ones before neogeo

Originally Posted by Lady Anne Blunt What you said make sense for me, but also and it confirm your theory, X1 (inside eboot.pbp, and probably X2 somewhere else) is already used by the system but isn t suppose to be visible on the xmb.

I have no idea, i dont even know if the ps3 is supposed to look inside .pbp but also X3 is "unknown"

Originally Posted by Lady Anne Blunt And as you said, the 4 bythe is still fine, only may be a little cosmetic/visual edit for the flag column (to make them smaller) and reduce the ATTRIBUTE for Speciall Content ( because i wrote too much, may be only shorter and more clear ) Only X2 and perhaps X3 can be still waiting for little more infos.

I separated it in a subsection, for now there is not much to add there, so i dont know if has been a good idea, i tryed to keep what you wrote of the order of the folders, but im not sure if is ok, please edit it the way you want

Btw... i "put" the big ATTRIBUTE table inside a "ATTRIBUTE in Bootable Content" subsection... i think is better this way, because has the same importance than "Savegames", "patches", etc... all then must be in subsections of the page at the same level, the only difference is the table for the others is smaller

Another btw... there is a subsection for "ATTRIBUTE in Disc Subfolders", but there are 2 flags related with discs in the big table (flag Nº17 & 18)
Hmmmm, maybe this two needs to be taken out of the big table ? (moved to the other)
Im not sure if i tested this flags in a HDD bootable content, maybe another two unknown ?

Originally Posted by Lady Anne Blunt I already messed up a lot on PARAM.SFO wiki page so i m going to a different page soon, still one of your page I ll try to clean my sentences about ATTRIBUTE for Speciall Content (but not sur if i ll not make even worst ) Please delete if you have any doubt and thanks you for all the news displays and infos on SFO page.

Keep editing the page, most of the new founds are thanks to you, directly or indirectly

[samson]

Originally Posted by Lady Anne Blunt I already messed up a lot on PARAM.SFO wiki page so i m going to a different page soon, still one of your page I ll try to clean my sentences about ATTRIBUTE for Speciall Content (but not sur if i ll not make even worst ) Please delete if you have any doubt and thanks you for all the news displays and infos on SFO page.

dont worry about it, i did a bit of spell-checking/better wording. i hope you guys dont mind, just undo if i've messed anything up.