[ps3hacker12]

Hi i dont have much time to write this, but saw this yesterday and found it interesting that alongside DMCA exemption comments from jay freeman (for Cydia) and mozzilla, there was a DMCA exemption comment from Jeffrey Cunard (writing on behalf of sony computer entertainment).

heres the PDF from the .gov website:
http://www.copyright.gov/1201/2012/c..._P._Cunard.pdf

and this is where its from:
http://www.copyright.gov/1201/2012/comments/

enjoy (this clearly needs to be formed into an article, just putting the information out there if you guys want to use it)

this is my favourite bit XD :

SCEA has always tried to encourage the homebrew community and culture, understanding that it can help to broaden the popularity of computer games and encourages individuals to take a deeper interest in development of more complex games. SCEA introduced a development system, the Net Yaroze, for the original PlayStation and was the first and only seventh-generation console maker to give homebrew enthusiasts the ability to run an alternative operating system on their consoles. Unfortunately, as discussed below, that feature had to be discontinued after it was used to compromise the security of the PS3. SCEA values the homebrew community. To the extent that the TPMs disable the capability to make homebrew uses of the console – and, as discussed in Section III.C.4 below, the TPMs do not prevent and have not prevented researchers and small, independent developers from using PS3s for their purposes – the issue being raised is solely one of cost and mere inconvenience. There is no need or right to have access to the PS3 firmware given the plentiful alternatives. There are, therefore, insufficient grounds for granting an exemption to the anti-circumvention provisions, which SCEA employs to protect important intellectual property rights.

[oPolo]

Originally Posted by ps3hacker12 Hi i dont have much time to write this, but saw this yesterday and found it interesting that alongside DMCA exemption comments from jay freeman (for Cydia) and mozzilla, there was a DMCA exemption comment from Jeffrey Cunard (writing on behalf of sony computer entertainment). heres the PDF from the .gov website: http://www.copyright.gov/1201/2012/c..._P._Cunard.pdf and this is where its from: http://www.copyright.gov/1201/2012/comments/ enjoy (this clearly needs to be formed into an article, just putting the information out there if you guys want to use it) this is my favourite bit XD :

I wonder how long it will take before a result to this courtcase are decided... Does anyone know how long it took in the iphone(/IOS) jailbreaking case?

[OoZic]

What a big lie from $ony/$CEA...

The only reason they added OtherOS to the PS3 was to avoid high tax payments for some regions.

If they really wanted us to have homebrew on the PS3 they would have given us the RSX drivers for OtherOS. Without them OtherOS stays crippled and is nice for fun but not for serious homebrew.

and they didn't remove OtherOS because it was used to hack the PS3. The decision to remove OtherOS was made before Geohot started with "his" hardware hack. $ony made the decision with the introduction of the Slim and only made it because they wanted to cut costs by canceling the OtherOS dep and fire the OtherOS devs that worked for them.

This is just an example of falsification of history.... happens every day

[shabang]

Originally Posted by OoZic The only reason they added OtherOS to the PS3 was to avoid high tax payments for some regions.

Are you refering to the EU customs case decision where Sony unsuccessfully tried to declare the PS2 as a computer rather than a game console in order to claim back customs duty?

This has absolutely no relevance to the PS3.

From 2004 there has been 0% import duties on games consoles into the EU. Previous to 2004 the rates were:

2003: 0.8%
2002: 1.1%
2001: 1.7%
2000: 2.2%

The PS3 came to the EU market in March, 2007.

Originally Posted by OoZic This is just an example of falsification of history.... happens every day

Glass houses, stones.

[GregoryRasputin]

Originally Posted by shabang Are you refering to the EU customs case decision where Sony unsuccessfully tried to declare the PS2 as a computer rather than a game console in order to claim back customs duty? This has absolutely no relevance to the PS3.

He is obviously speaking about the PS3 and he is right.

Sony used the OtherOS function to avoid import tax in some regions.

Notice he said "some regions", notice he did not say "EU"....

[shabang]

Originally Posted by GregoryRasputin He is obviously speaking about the PS3 and he is right. Sony used the OtherOS function to avoid import tax in some regions. Notice he said "some regions", notice he did not say "EU"....

I would be genuinely curious to know which regions. Mostly because almost every other post I have ever seen about this mythical tax break has been regarding the EU (usually the UK).

I've looked into in the past and the three main regions of sale for the PS3 are the Japan/EU/N.America, all have 0% import duty on computers and video games consoles.

There are however some smaller markets (considered with the inclusion of purchasing power not just headcount) such as India and New Zealand where I believe import duties do differ but I cannot find any reference, even in these nations, that the PS3 has ever been classified (or has attempted to be classified) as a computer. I would be happy to find something contrary to this but I can't and so for me it falls into the category of user generated myth that has been repeated so often it is now seen as fact.

If you know different I would love to read it, and if you have them, please cite references so I can add them to my archive.

Very useful, thanks.

[GregoryRasputin]

Originally Posted by shabang If you know different I would love to read it, and if you have them, please cite references

lol you are talking about six years ago and this is mostly from memory, from reading various magazines, but i will look

Originally Posted by shabang so I can add them to my archive.

I think my Archive is bigger than yours
www.ps3history.com

[OoZic]

Hi All, On 02/26/2010 04:30 AM, David Woodhouse wrote: > On Fri, 2009-08-21 at 09:58 -0700, geoffrey.levand at am.sony.com wrote: >> The feature of "Install Other OS" was removed from the new >> "Slim" PS3 model to focus on delivering games and other >> entertainment content. >> >> Please be assured that SCE is committed to continue >> the support for previously sold models that have the >> "Install Other OS" feature and that this feature will >> not be disabled in future firmware releases. > > Although it's disappointing that Sony have removed the feature from new > models, It's good to have this public assurance from Sony that at least > the feature won't be removed from older models which are already > working. Please understand that in my position as PS3-Linux maintainer I can really only provide users with technical support for Linux and the LV1 hcall interface. The text above was provided to me by SCE management. If you have any questions regarding it or any other feature of the PS3 please contact the Playstation Customer Support in your country. Using Playstation Customer Support will insure your inquiry is processed through the correct channels within SCE. -Geoff

(source: http://lists.ozlabs.org/pipermail/cb...ry/007202.html)
Note: this message was from 2009, Geohot didn't even own a PS3 then

Sony's PlayStation 2 is officially a games console and not a computer, according to an English court judgment that denies the electronics firm a €50m (£34.2m) rebate for import duties. Sony has been pursuing legal action for five years in attempts to have the machine classified as a "digital processing unit" and not a games console. Games machines attracted an EU import duty of 1.7 per cent in 2001, falling year by year to zero by 2004; but computers attracted no duty in that time.

(source: http://www.eurogamer.net/forum_threa...hread_id=58142)

€ 50m is serious money, 5 years fighting for the rebate is a long time. But you are right, since 2004 it was zero percent. Doesn't take away the EU isn't trustworthy and maybe $ony took some action to prevent these problems in the future with adding the OtherOS function. They learned their lesson with the PS2 so to say

And there are more countries than the US, EU and Japan. Ask some users here what a PS3 costs in countries like Brazil ....

[ps3hacker12]

c'mon just admit it, you all love Sony on the inside...


(before you start pointing death threats in my direction, i was only joking....)

[shabang]

Originally Posted by OoZic € 50m is serious money, 5 years fighting for the rebate is a long time.

But as your quote illustrated they failed to be granted any rebate.

Originally Posted by OoZic Doesn't take away the EU isn't trustworthy

I'd be more inclined to say incompetent than anything else. Being untrustworthy implies they have a hidden agenda, I'm not sure they're smart enough to even have an agenda, let alone a hidden one!

Originally Posted by OoZic And there are more countries than the US, EU and Japan. Ask some users here what a PS3 costs in countries like Brazil ....

That's to do with the import duties generally (20+ % on many many items, primary and manufactured), importing even PC hardware into Brazil at a price that makes it affordable to the Brazilian market is a challenge (hell importing anything!).

http://thebrazilbusiness.com/import-tax-guide

It would be fair I think to consider Brazil an economically protectionist nation.

Originally Posted by GregoryRasputin I think my Archive is bigger than yours

I lol'd.

That's a quite interesting read.

If you'll take constructive criticism I would have like to have read a little more about the pre-release and release phase of the PS3 and also some additional editorial comment on some of the "situations" but that is my own innate curiosity I think.

On a tiny practical note, as many of the pages are so long it would be great if links to the next/previous pages were shown at the bottom of the page so users don't have to scroll back up to the header to move forward a time period.