[mirkie]

Originally Posted by svenmullet I'm an atheist and a realist, therefore in my mind there is no "afterlife". We're just biological organisms composed of elements which have been here since the beginning of the universe. When we die, it's game over. I don't know anything about Law of Attraction, other than it seems to be some new-agey BS designed to sell books

True, you go where you came from: nowhere.

[LoboGuara]

Originally Posted by svenmullet I don't know anything about Law of Attraction, other than it seems to be some new-agey BS designed to sell books

There is a well known writer here called Paulo Coelho (teenage girls love his books) , who wrote "When you want something, all the universe conspires in helping you to achieve it" on a book called "The Alchemist". Its almost the same principle and yes, he has sold more than 65 million copies in more than 150 countries

Edit:

Originally Posted by ploggy I have a question. (sort of in the same vein as the Ops) If there is truly such a thing as ghosts and such. How come there are no ghosts of Cows/Sheep/Snakes/Fish and other animals? I mean say a couple thousand years ago the land your house was built on used to be farmland where all cattle roamed around. How come people don't see cow specters roaming your Kitchen in the dead of night? :P Hmmm?

Because the man created God (and ghosts) in his own image

[Honcho]

Why So Serious

[hamtah]

Originally Posted by svenmullet I'm an atheist and a realist, therefore in my mind there is no "afterlife". We're just biological organisms composed of elements which have been here since the beginning of the universe. When we die, it's game over. I don't know anything about Law of Attraction, other than it seems to be some new-agey BS designed to sell books

I don't want to start some war here, or make smart-ass statements...

But being an Atheist, you believe in the Evolution Theory, right? Well, I just want to ask, if we evolved from a single sell millions of years ago, where did that single cell come from? The Evolution Theory states that a living cell was made from compressed elements (gasses?) which in an equation 1 out of 10 (hundred as exponent) can happen. Now I can't put in exponents here on the forums, but 10 with 100 as an exponent means is that the chances of it happening is mathematically impossible. So how is it that out of compressed DEAD, NON-LIVING elements did a LIVING cell form? Something scientists have yet to figure out? I don't know. But I have read, that if scientists were to recreate a living cell with those exact elements (can't remember what they are :P), it would be IMPOSSIBLE for them to achieve it. The Scientists can use anything they like to create a living cell, but it will not be possible.

Now, of course, you might have something of knowledge I do not know of, but I just was asking a question. I don't want to start war on Atheists, just asking a question on a theory.

One last point, I have read somewhere that the Theory of Evolution is the most unscientific theory out there; it basically is said to bring down Science in many ways. Fossils and crap really don't say anything, other then, a change from generation to generation. This simply isn't about having less hair then people before, or stuff like that, this is about how a living cell is created out of non-living elements. Just something to think about.

[svenmullet]

The odds of single-celled life "just happening" is exactly 1 in 1. (because it did "just happen")

The universe is estimated to be close to 14 billion years old, and so large that we can't detect the outer boundaries of it (because light/EMR from stars out there won't reach us for millions/billions of years still). In all this vast time and space, every form of matter/energy has reacted with every other form of matter/energy under every possible condition, probably many times over. The basic building blocks of life are amino acids, which we can create in a lab. That we can't create life (yet) does not mean that it can't be done intentionally or otherwise, just that in our very limited time here so far we've not even scratched the surface of possibilities. If you throw a million random objects into a pile a million times, chances are they will land stacked up in interesting ways.

And besides (and I'm not trying to offend or troll here, this is what I firmly believe) it's ridiculous to think that some magic ghost created everything.

[hamtah]

Originally Posted by svenmullet The odds of single-celled life "just happening" is exactly 1 in 1. (because it did "just happen") The universe is estimated to be close to 14 billion years old, and so large that we can't detect the outer boundaries of it (because light/EMR from stars out there won't reach us for millions/billions of years still). In all this vast time and space, every form of matter/energy has reacted with every other form of matter/energy under every possible condition, probably many times over. The basic building blocks of life are amino acids, which we can create in a lab. That we can't create life (yet) does not mean that it can't be done intentionally or otherwise, just that in our very limited time here so far we've not even scratched the surface of possibilities. If you throw a million random objects into a pile a million times, chances are they will land stacked up in interesting ways. And besides (and I'm not trying to offend or troll here, this is what I firmly believe) it's ridiculous to think that some magic ghost created everything.

"Chances of a single cell happening is exactly 1 in 1". 1/1 is 100%. That means what if I throw the building blocks of the Universe, I will get a living cell. What you said at first was totally off what you said after. The chances of a living cell happening out of building blocks which are dead, is in fact 0. It is just not possible. Its like saying:

0 + 0 = 1

0 = non-living element
1 = living cell

The math clearly states, that it is not possible to create a living cell out of dead elements.

[svenmullet]

If you walk outside and get hit by lightning, what were the odds that you'd walk outside and get hit by lightning? 1/1 (100%) because it happened.
************* [ - Post Merged - ] *************

Originally Posted by hamtah That means what if I throw the building blocks of the Universe, I will get a living cell.

If you do this 10^1,000,000,000,000,000 times, chances are you would. And that 1 time where it worked is all that matters in this case.

Originally Posted by hamtah What you said at first was totally off what you said after. The chances of a living cell happening out of building blocks which are dead, is in fact 0. It is just not possible. Its like saying: 0 + 0 = 1 0 = non-living element 1 = living cell The math clearly states, that it is not possible to create a living cell out of dead elements.

That's flawed for a number of reasons, but I'll just focus on one of them: 1 does not equal living cell. A living cell is made up of billions/trillions of non-living atoms, it's the way they are assembled that makes it a "living cell"

[LoboGuara]

Originally Posted by hamtah I don't want to start some war here, or make smart-ass statements... But being an Atheist, you believe in the Evolution Theory, right? Well, I just want to ask, if we evolved from a single sell millions of years ago, where did that single cell come from? The Evolution Theory states that a living cell was made from compressed elements (gasses?) which in an equation 1 out of 10 (hundred as exponent) can happen. Now I can't put in exponents here on the forums, but 10 with 100 as an exponent means is that the chances of it happening is mathematically impossible. So how is it that out of compressed DEAD, NON-LIVING elements did a LIVING cell form? Something scientists have yet to figure out? I don't know. But I have read, that if scientists were to recreate a living cell with those exact elements (can't remember what they are :P), it would be IMPOSSIBLE for them to achieve it. The Scientists can use anything they like to create a living cell, but it will not be possible. Now, of course, you might have something of knowledge I do not know of, but I just was asking a question. I don't want to start war on Atheists, just asking a question on a theory. One last point, I have read somewhere that the Theory of Evolution is the most unscientific theory out there; it basically is said to bring down Science in many ways. Fossils and crap really don't say anything, other then, a change from generation to generation. This simply isn't about having less hair then people before, or stuff like that, this is about how a living cell is created out of non-living elements. Just something to think about.

You are talking about the Aleksandr Oparins life origins theory, not about darwin and evolutionary theory. The two teories share the same principle (ocasional mutations+seletive ambient) and its not about cells, but about organical molecules being arranged. Cells are a more distant and complex things than the (possible) first life forms.

[hamtah]

Originally Posted by svenmullet If you walk outside and get hit by lightning, what were the odds that you'd walk outside and get hit by lightning? 1/1 (100%) because it happened. ************* [ - Post Merged - ] ************* If you do this 10^1,000,000,000,000,000 times, chances are you would. And that 1 time where it worked is all that matters in this case. That's flawed for a number of reasons, but I'll just focus on one of them: 1 does not equal living cell. A living cell is made up of billions/trillions of non-living atoms, it's the way they are assembled that makes it a "living cell"

So you're basically saying that it only matters if something by chance happens once? Taking your lightning example, if we were to get hit by lightning, the odds of it happening AGAIN is very small. We are not talking about something that has happened, but if it can happan again. If I was born, then the odds of me being born is obviously 100%, but the odds of it happening again is impossible.

Fixing my last equation, because obviously 1 doesn't appeal much:

Trillion Dead 0s + Thrillion Dead 0s = One Living Cell

You are saying that if I arrange my TV in the way a living cell is arranged, my TV willing be a living life form? Let me answer that for you, no. In no way me or anyone in this world can make rearrange atoms to create a living cell. Its why we have mockups of our body; an example will be the camera, which is the basic mockup of our eyes. We cannot make eyes, but we can make something that copys of what our eyes can do. Will we ever be able to create a camera which can process images like our brain can? Never. Its just not possible, that is why our bodies are perfect. They are made to perfection, and nothing in error.

Science has to be the most fasicinating subjects out there, my favourite for sure. I don't know about other religions, but my religions says that this Universe is made to be explored. We should always be exploring and discovering new things. The sky is not, and never will be the limit. I don't know why people have misconceptions about every religion, considering some even love science.

What I "hate" about Atheism is that they have made Science intp a religion itself. Science is a subject, a subject from which we study and learn. Science is not a religion where people can say "Either choose Science, or God". We can believe in God, and study Science. Thats what I do, and I taking courses in Aeronautics and Biology. Both fasicinate me because they do not tell me that there is no God, but they tell me that there is a Universe, and it is there for us to explore.

Originally Posted by LoboGuara You are talking about the Aleksandr Oparins life origins theory, not about darwin and evolutionary theory. The two teories share the same principle (ocasional mutations+seletive ambient) and its not about cells, but about organical molecules being arranged. Cells are a more distant and complex things than the (possible) first life forms.

No, I'm pretty sure I'm talking about Darwinism.

[fuRh7]

There is no afterlife. We are organic machines that need food as a fuel for our energy. There is no energy that gets passed on. If it would be like that. I could take extra energy from my PS3 and used it as a extra energy for my soccer game. The energy left in us, when we die, is used for decomposing . So, because our "soul" is nothing else but a connection between our body and our brain.