[Ada Love Lace]

it might not be dependent to the game (or only if it s old eboot type without xmb in game without xmb forced flag) but as the name description, from the system.
When text chat is selected, there are on top right an pop up windows (need option debug- NP debug: on), saying: textchatgui initialized.

And from Deroad, it seems possible to chat in any game, so voice probably either (but not cross game) if microphone/camera is connected (if not, option is disable, but you can access it when you are not in game ("AVCHAT utility intialized" pop up message) and set for example: camera off/ microphone on...

If someone know if we can receive voice chat in game even without microphone/camera connected? (i think one time it s happen to me or my TV was haunted)

That flag is right on time to be tested at least. And from Sandungas infos on other page on wiki.

---------
The reason for this flag is might be after playstation home disturbance or when hardware is connected (such psp/vita remote play, torne, nasne) because the ram limitation?
---------
There are also a really limited possibility than this flag is for psvita/psp but that will be really weirdo to understand.
-------
Thanks you Deroad for the infos.

[sandungas]

Originally Posted by deroad the only type of chat that i use online is the cross-game chat (only text). you can talk with other friends (also if they play different games) and you can add people from the chat itself. to use it you need to press the PS button. you can have multiple chat at the same time. once you receive a message, it will be showed like a normal psn message. if too long it will be shown partially

I just found a message from a guy explaining that he and his friends uses this private text chat in socom (when you die in socom the voice chat disables but you can see what the other players does included the enemy team, by using the private text chat you can give advises to your friend heheh)

I found some interesting links, not for you but i post them here to take note, maybe later we can add them to the wiki or something:
Text-voice chat
http://manuals.playstation.net/docum.../textchat.html
Video chat
http://manuals.playstation.net/docum...startchat.html
PS3 How To: Video Chat - YouTube

Originally Posted by deroad voice cross-chat is not possible since the ps3 cannot handle it.

There is people saying there is not enought VRAM to manage it, but i ignore if there is some way to bypass this limitation or acomplish it other way, i dont dare to say its impossible

But the important thing by now is to know if this flag is related with this feature (that doesnt exist yet)
After reading all this i think yes, in my mind the name "sytem voice chat disabled" matches very well with this (the name is verifyed has been found in several places)

-with "system" i understand that is a feature of the firmware (not of the game)
-because is triggered by a param.sfo.... this means its used in something that is bootable (a game)
-inside the game you have "something" new and the only way to configure things without quitting a game is by the "XMB in-game
-and by using the word "voice" it can be only one kind of chat, this tiny icon in the XMB with the headset

Is not a list of arguments to explain that i have reason... im only trying to put in order my thoughts but this is what i think now



-----------
Edit:
Chronologically the flag was added to the ps3 firmware after the feature "XMB in game" in firmware 2.40 (or at the same time)
The next one after this is the one we speculated as "PSPvita remote play" (this one is not comfirmed)
Its not too old

Edit2:
"Text Chat" was introduced in firmware 2.70... no comments about voice chat here... hmmmm

[deroad]

Originally Posted by sandungas But the important thing by now is to know if this flag is related with this feature (that doesnt exist yet) After reading all this i think yes, in my mind the name "sytem voice chat disabled" matches very well with this (the name is verifyed has been found in several places) -with "system" i understand that is a feature of the firmware (not of the game) -because is triggered by a param.sfo.... this means its used in something that is bootable (a game) -inside the game you have "something" new and the only way to configure things without quitting a game is by the "XMB in-game -and by using the word "voice" it can be only one kind of chat, this tiny icon in the XMB with the headset Is not a list of arguments to explain that i have reason... im only trying to put in order my thoughts but this is what i think now ----------- Edit: Chronologically the flag was added to the ps3 firmware after the feature "XMB in game" in firmware 2.40 (or at the same time) The next one after this is the one we speculated as "PSPvita remote play" (this one is not comfirmed) Its not too old Edit2: "Text Chat" was introduced in firmware 2.70... no comments about voice chat here... hmmmm

for me voice chat equals disable the mic ingame. on some games (singleplayer ones) the mic is disabled!
Maybe i'm also wrong. but if you say that that flag allow cross-game voice chat, that can be true. the only thing is that Sony can't use it since it's a Xbox360 exclusive!

[Ada Love Lace]

Originally Posted by deroad for me voice chat equals disable the mic ingame. on some games (singleplayer ones) the mic is disabled! Maybe i'm also wrong. but if you say that that flag allow cross-game voice chat, that can be true. the only thing is that Sony can't use it since it's a Xbox360 exclusive!

Strictly about flag description (and not about the VRAM question) when it is activate, it seems more to disable the chat voice.
Less or more the case when it s happen with Playstation home (at beginning, chat voice was possible with everyone and you was able to hear anyone without starting voice chat., but they disable it and if i understand right, you will need to start chat voice from xmb).
And it s was probably from FW restriction and after added as possible flag.

Can we heard voice chat in game even without mic? ( i m not sure about it)

The only way i can imagine to test it will be to activate the flag and go online, play some war or sport game, having mic and try to start chat voice or to don t heard anyone.

[sandungas]

Originally Posted by Ada Love Lace Strictly about flag description (and not about the VRAM question) when it is activate, it seems more to disable the chat voice. Less or more the case when it s happen with Playstation home (at beginning, chat voice was possible with everyone and you was able to hear anyone without starting voice chat., but they disable it and if i understand right, you will need to start chat voice from xmb). And it s was probably from FW restriction and after added as possible flag.

I never readed about this, at first i thought home is the better platform for sony to test chat... so its a good candidate for this flag
Today i dont know what to think, but if the flag was for home it must be in one of his patches

Originally Posted by Ada Love Lace Can we heard voice chat in game even without mic? ( i m not sure about it)

Yes, your tv is not hunted :D
But this depends of the game as i said all chat voice comunications when you are inside the game are managed with a client program contained in the game (or in other words... is not the ps3 firmware)
This is what makes me think that the used word "SYSTEM" is a completly different function refered to the ps3 firmware



-------------------
The weird thing of all this is this flag has not been found never in any kind of content, is something "rare"... not a common function

[Ada Love Lace]

Originally Posted by sandungas Yes, your tv is not hunted :D But this depends of the game as i said all chat voice comunications when you are inside the game are managed with a client program contained in the game (or in other words... is not the ps3 firmware) This is what makes me think that the used word "SYSTEM" is a completly different function ------------------- The weird thing of all this is this flag has not been found never in any kind of content, is something "rare"... not a common function

About PlayStationhome, it was what i understand from searching on internet and now thanks your infos i m sure about it (we can hear voice and my tv is not haunted)

So if someone know somes games we can heard chat voice without having micro i can test this flag.

About if it was used on patches on playstation home, at first i though so but now i doubt and i think they added this directly on FW update and linked on playstation home and kept that function to prevent and block quickly from game data any problematic chat voice.

Other theory will be more about the limits of VRAM used and the chat voice have been disable in somes rares games.

But i prefer the first theory with annoying peoples chattering like parrot

[sandungas]

Originally Posted by Ada Love Lace About if it was used on patches on playstation home, at first i though so but now i doubt and i think they added this directly on FW update and linked on playstation home and kept that function to prevent and block quickly from game data any problematic chat voice.

So in resume: when betatesting the voice chat feature sony choosed "home" as a test platform, because they can release patches fast if something goes wrong, because its free (so users will not complain if something goes wrong) and it has lot of users
While in beta test they added this flag in the case that something goes wrong (but they never used it, or we didnt found)

This has some chances, but seems a bad decission

-----------------
Random thoughts:
There are some PS3 models that doesnt support chat (kiosk, arcade, AVtest)
http://www.ps3devwiki.com/wiki/Model..._functionality

[sandungas]

Still active with more brainstorming

I have been editing the Game saves page a bit with a better explain of "PS3 protections" (nothing too important new, just some details)... and some manuals for game saves edition:
-manuals for inject/extract save games in PC for both PS1 and PS2 (Using .VM1 and .VM2 formats)
-manuals for game save icon edition in PC for both PS1 and PS2 (PS1 supports animation composed by 3 frames, and PS2 supports 3D objects, textures, and light)
The next version of memcardrex will have .VM1 support, i asked gliitch if he could advise shendo and he did, read last messages
http://shendosoft.blogspot.com.es/20...oad-links.html

-----------------------------------
But there are some things i dont want to forget and would like to openly brainstorming related with this "from X0 to X8" we documented (used by NeoGeo and PCEngine), for the people that doesnt known what im talking about take a fast read at the explains of PCEngine and NeoGeo under the icons screencapture in this page of the wiki:
http://www.ps3devwiki.com/wiki/PARAM.SFO#CATEGORY

Lets forget NeoGeo by now, and use PCEngine for our examples (because NeoGeo needs 2 flags, and PCEngine only 1)
We know to identify PCEngine... XMB needs to query the database for:
http://www.ps3devwiki.com/wiki/XMB_database#Game
Game:Game.category (it must be HG... in fact PCEngine can be considered a subcategory of HG)
Game:Game.attribute (it must be flag nº22)

But wtf is this ?
Game:Game.gameCategory
The structure places a "game" object inside another "game" object ???... can be this a way to identify "subcategories" with only 1 query to the database???... has some relationship with this "from X0 to X8" ???


---------------------------------------
This has been extracted from 4.21 firmware, i was looking for a new "Sega Saturn" icon
http://kotaku.com/5923651/sega-will-...tformer-nights

But no luck, maybe in next firmwares... or maybe im wrong
Based in the idea that one of the important thing in common between NeoGeo and PCEngine is they have a license not related with sony (if you press triangle over his icon there is no license text, also doesnt exist inside the PARAM.SFO)
So "Sega Saturn" is a good candidate to be identifyed with "X0 X8 flags"

---------------------------------------
And finally, "PSP remaster"
Added in Firmware 3.70 in "settings column", for the "PSP Remaster" games series
http://andriasang.com/comxi2/ps3_firmware_psp_remaster/
http://uk.ps3.ign.com/articles/116/1169843p1.html

This game will be released in a disc, the fact that has his own "mini-icon" means the ps3 firmware can identify it. But all game discs allways has been CATEGORY "DG" (included PS2 remastered collections)
So there are 2 ways to identify it:

option 1
By using a new category valid for discs (replacing "DG" with something)... but is not enought... this obvoiusly is prepared to be released later repackaged for PSN... so they need another new category for HDD (replacing "HG" with something)
In few words... this way seems correct, but i dont like the idea because:

option 2
By using the standard category's ("DG" for discs, and "HG" for games) but adding one of this reserved flags "from X0 to X8"
Seems not technically corerct, but is more simple, this X0 X8 flags was implemented around firmware 3.41 so they had no chance to do this before

Well, we wil see... but seems another candidate for this X0 X8 unknown flags

Edit:
btw, the icon for "PSP remaster" is named "item_tex_pspemuformat.png"... seems a clear reference to the psp emulator... so seems to be managed by psp emulator, and this is another wtf

[Ada Love Lace]

Originally Posted by sandungas Still active with more brainstorming

I need me too.

Thanks you for the work you did and this page is the best page on the wiki for me.

About Shendo s memrexcard (and thanks you gliitch) i was trying to persuade myself to don t ask him untill i got the color palette for PS1 icon (may be in secular or two) so it s really nice one.
(also can be added the PocketStation ICON hidden on somes PS1/PSN games but i need to do fews tests for that)
Thanks you to have ask him and Gliitch also. (Shendo can also add/correct infos on the board about .VM1 if having time)


About X0-X7: i don t agree about NEOGEO using only one flag. For me, it use also 4 bytes value: 00 (or 10 if i remember right )
But that is trivial details.

Also i don t agree about date implemented for X category on the FW. Yes, the .RCO might be added time to time but the flags used for that was probably long time ago.

Sega Saturn: i even didn t knew about it.

If i m correct: it will not be X1-X2 either (flags used on PSP), and probably not X3 (this one i don t know) since there are already X4 on PS3.

It s a good hunting this Sega Saturn.

About PSP remastered, i even didn t knew until you edited the wiki. There are only fews games i think (the N3 will be release at the end of this month), and one feature is to use your PS3 save data into your PSP so it s confirm your theory.

About the way it can be implemented, i don t know, they can do something similar than fake bluray structure ( PS3_EXTRA) having being use for this: first release on disc (in Japan) and after release on PSN (US-UE) for Biohazard/Resident evil.

There are soon also PSVITA export (PS1 classic from PS3 to PS vita) but i feel really doubt they will continue to use the .SFO for this.

In fact, they seems to don t use anymore fews attributes like XMB in game music V2 for the recent games. Because you probably documented the .SFO more than theirs archaic archives.

There are also the PS VITA utility i was wondering for the page game save.

The .SFO page is really beautiful, impressive and really well explained for everyone (apart the little things i added about X category or so).
It s something i try to copied about the PocketStation page (but everyone can edit it also)

----
X8? (X0-X7 for me, X8 was not valid but i can test again)

[sandungas]

Originally Posted by Ada Love Lace I need me too. Thanks you for the work you did and this page is the best page on the wiki for me. About Shendo s memrexcard (and thanks you gliitch) i was trying to persuade myself to don t ask him untill i got the color palette for PS1 icon (may be in secular or two) so it s really nice one. (also can be added the PocketStation ICON hidden on somes PS1/PSN games but i need to do fews tests for that) Thanks you to have ask him and Gliitch also. (Shendo can also add/correct infos on the board about .VM1 if having time)

The "CATEGORY For HDD" table looks like an official manual with this icons :D
I realized there was texts in the table that could be replaced with icons, also every row of the table uses an icon... and this is why i removed the row for "PSvita" (it has no icon)

In the Game Saves page i promised you to try to clean-up the PS1 tables (and i messed with one of your tables that probably disturbed you)... but i will do some day (its gonna be long to try to verify and resume all this, heheh)

Yeahh, gliitch was very polite messaging shendo, and also the answer from shendo, maybe was not the better moment to advise him to take a look at the page because there are things not finished, but i hope he reads the links to manuals in forums to see there is people using this method with .VM1 months ago

Originally Posted by Ada Love Lace About X0-X7: i don t agree about NEOGEO using only one flag. For me, it use also 4 bytes value: 00 (or 10 if i remember right) But that is trivial details. Also i don t agree about date implemented for X category on the FW. Yes, the .RCO might be added time to time but the flags used for that was probably long time ago. Sega Saturn: i even didn t knew about it. If i m correct: it will not be X1-X2 either (flags used on PSP), and probably not X3 (this one i don t know) since there are already X4 on PS3. It s a good hunting this Sega Saturn.

NeoGeo uses more flags (i dont remember exactly) but one of them is "license hidden"... but are not what defines the content
You can remove this "license hidden" flag and the game is still a NeoGeo (but for this you need to add the LICENSE in his PARAM.SFO because XMB will try to load it)
Im 99% sure i did this test (when i was trying to identify the "crytical" flags for neogeo and pcengine)

The implemented date for this X categories... i agree with you, it was before 3.41, i just removed the date (of pcengine) because neogeo had a different date, none of them was accurate, maybe was not a good idea to remove this date, if you want add it again with a interrogation mark (in both because seems was implemented at the same time)

Sega Saturn... im not sure if it has been confirmed, but is a good candidate, im always looking for details like this in new pages

Originally Posted by Ada Love Lace About PSP remastered, i even didn t knew until you edited the wiki. There are only fews games i think (the N3 will be release at the end of this month), and one feature is to use your PS3 save data into your PSP so it s confirm your theory. About the way it can be implemented, i don t know, they can do something similar than fake bluray structure ( PS3_EXTRA) having being use for this: first release on disc (in Japan) and after release on PSN (US-UE) for Biohazard/Resident evil.

This "PSP Remasters" games are .pkg
This first ones releases seems to come in discs (but is not playable from the disc)... you can install the .pkg and then play from HDD
Also it supports "adhoc party" with a PSP connected by wireless (with this you can play psp games that only supports "multiplayer LAN" mode)
There is a adhoc_party.pkg in PSN, this .pkg comes included in the discs of "PSP Remaster"
The disc is marked with the flags "install disc" and "install packages"... and the folder structure for the packages is based on PS3_EXTRA folder
So... there is nothing new in this discs (the interesting things are in the game .pkg and the features related with it)

Originally Posted by Ada Love Lace There are soon also PSVITA export (PS1 classic from PS3 to PS vita) but i feel really doubt they will continue to use the .SFO for this. In fact, they seems to don t use anymore fews attributes like XMB in game music V2 for the recent games. Because you probably documented the .SFO more than theirs archaic archives. There are also the PS VITA utility i was wondering for the page game save. The .SFO page is really beautiful, impressive and really well explained for everyone (apart the little things i added about X category or so). It s something i try to copied about the PocketStation page (but everyone can edit it also)

Well, the paths and functions for export PS1 games ---> to PSvita are in the game saves page, but as speculation (i dont remember exactly), it was obvious that sony will use this format soon
We need to review all related with PSvita formats, i have no idea of how this "PS VITA utility" works (if it exist).. but the fact there is no mini-icon for it makes me doubt if is visible in XMB

Originally Posted by Ada Love Lace X8? (X0-X7 for me, X8 was not valid but i can test again)

Ops, my fault, this was a typo
************* [ - Post Merged - ] *************


Ohhh, surprise, i was taking alook at shendo's blog...

MemcardRex 1.6 released with .VM1 support \o/

http://www.ps3devwiki.com/index.php?...48&oldid=12417