[malex]

Originally Posted by VideoX ...because they cared more about customers than the so called piracy, they were more concern about designing good producs, publishing good games and trying to keep franchises...

You just hit the nail on the head... no, excuse me, let me rephrase that... AHEM!... YOU OBLITERATED THE NAIL'S HEAD!

Originally Posted by Annelies I'm pretty sure if Sony was able to send firmware updates to the PS1/PS2, that they would have taken anti-piracy precautions... and would have removed features if they thought it was necessary.

Well I'm glad we'll never know for sure, but I wouldn't be totally sure about them doing that. I'm not sure they had hypnotized themselves into thinking piracy was "destroying the industry" at that point; me thinks they just viewed it like what it is, a nuisance. Sony this gen acted like that clumsy mofo who slaps someone in the face trying to shoo away a mosquito... and even worst is the fact that they totally missed the mosquito.

[VideoX]

Originally Posted by Annelies I'm pretty sure if Sony was able to send firmware updates to the PS1/PS2, that they would have taken anti-piracy precautions... and would have removed features if they thought it was necessary.

We will never know, like malex said. But in the case they took away features as an anti-piracy measure, then and only then, I would accept that. The PS1 had the hardware chip that injected the PS CD-ROM's valid 4 digit code as a piracy method. The PS2 had the Mars Pro and Matrix chips that enabled the boot of pirated games. In the matter of homebrew, those chips weren't necessary at all, as there were other methods to load homebrew (mainly in the PS2, as the PS1 has almost no homebrew). That's why they remove the I/O parallel port, as you could use it to run GameBoy games, connect a GameShark device (so many memories) and the DVD/VCD player device.

With the PS3 and the removal of OtherOS wasn't the case, with the removal of PS2 backwards compatibility wasn't the case. They took them away without reason, alleging high support costs for the first and high manufacturing costs for the last.

Those reasons were never related with piracy, not even the OtherOS matter, as using GPL licensed software let's you do pretty much everything you want (as long as it stays under the GPL license). Thus, coding emulators and using them is not against the law, so you can use as many roms as games you have for those roms.

If OtherOS allowed to exploit flaws in GameOS, then update the Hypervisor in a FW update that restricts the exploits of these flaws. Remember, what make the hackers break the PS3 security was the removal of OtherOS, with the sole purpose of getting it back.

[Annelies]

Originally Posted by VideoX With the PS3 and the removal of OtherOS wasn't the case, with the removal of PS2 backwards compatibility wasn't the case. They took them away without reason, alleging high support costs for the first and high manufacturing costs for the last.

I believe they removed backwards compatibility so they could re-sell PS2 titles on PSN/HD Collection. Can't blame them, either. Look at the economy. Sony is losing money left and right. I would have done the same thing.

I will agree that they could have patched the hypervisor in a firmware update instead of entirely disabling OtherOS. I hardly cared anyway, since I never used OtherOS, and when I had linux on my hacked PS3, I was bored and went back to windows on my main PC.

[omargx]

lol people are sure stupid ....this guy did what we all would have done
some kids tried to f**k with ur company what you gonna do ur just gonna let them do that
i hate to say this but it's kind of our fault anyway i hope this s**t will not be repeated with Ps vita i just bought it and i hope i will enjoy it because their a chance Sony will just leave the product and never support it

[VideoX]

Originally Posted by omargx lol people are sure stupid ....this guy did what we all would have done some kids tried to f**k with ur company what you gonna do ur just gonna let them do that i hate to say this but it's kind of our fault anyway i hope this s**t will not be repeated with Ps vita i just bought it and i hope i will enjoy it because their a chance Sony will just leave the product and never support it

Far from the truth, you don't put a software guy to manage and direct a hardware line. In software, Hirai did make a lot for the success of the PS1 and PS2. But was unable to manage and direct the PS3-PSP, hardware and software alike. He was always under the wing of Ken Kutaragi, who took the directions that guided the PS1 and PS2 to success. If I were in his position, I would ask the customers what they really wanted in the PS3 (most of the homebrew is needed applications by most of the users because Sony don't release them or release them incomplete or very limited/useless). Ken Kutaragi didn't care about piracy like Hirai did these years, he was focusing in making the PS brand better and improving it, not persecuting, sueing the customers and taking away advertised and sold features.

Which was the success formula for the PS1 and PS2?, exclusives. Hirai failed to achieve that still being an expert in the matter of software for the PS3 and PSP. Hence,

• The PSP was some sort of mixed success-failure, not because of the piracy nor the homebrew, but because SCE failed to retain franchises and/or good titles. They were busy trying to stop something unstoppable (homebrew, not piracy) instead of worrying to provide quality software for the new machine. In example, the PSP has no new titles in America and Europe, but still gets new games in Japan, why does this happen?.
  
• The PS3 lost lots of exclusives by the release date, only retaining most of the Metal Gear line and Gran Turismo 5, and loosing the big battle horses Final Fantasy, Grand Theft Auto (which helped a lot to the PS2 and PSP to success), Call of Duty: Modern Warfare, Assassin's Creed, Devil May Cry and Resident Evil 5, to name the most important.

Calling people "stupid" is not an argument, we (most of us) recall everything from records, our experience, memories, archives and magazines, and can say whos fault is it.

Think of this. If you are the CEO of a car factory and sell a car with all kind of things in it and then in every car check you take away something, lets say the stereo or the A/C, with a lame excuse or motive, whos fault is it?, your's or the customer's?. Remember that the scene exists just to improve and add things that the console lacks of or fails to provide, nothing more. In the case of the car, if a client takes away the ****ty stock CD Player to put a better one and in the car check the factory sues the customer for changing the CD Player, whos fault is it?, the car factory's for putting a ****ty CD Player or the customer's for trying to listen to music in his legally bought car?.

[Annelies]

PS1 was king of platforming games.
PS2 was king of JRPG games.
PS3 is kind of... I don't know what kind of games, lol.

[omargx]

Originally Posted by VideoX Far from the truth, you don't put a software guy to manage and direct a hardware line. In software, Hirai did make a lot for the success of the PS1 and PS2. But was unable to manage and direct the PS3-PSP, hardware and software alike. He was always under the wing of Ken Kutaragi, who took the directions that guided the PS1 and PS2 to success. If I were in his position, I would ask the customers what they really wanted in the PS3 (most of the homebrew is needed applications by most of the users because Sony don't release them or release them incomplete or very limited/useless). Ken Kutaragi didn't care about piracy like Hirai did these years, he was focusing in making the PS brand better and improving it, not persecuting, sueing the customers and taking away advertised and sold features. Which was the success formula for the PS1 and PS2?, exclusives. Hirai failed to achieve that still being an expert in the matter of software for the PS3 and PSP. Hence, The PSP was some sort of mixed success-failure, not because of the piracy nor the homebrew, but because SCE failed to retain franchises and/or good titles. They were busy trying to stop something unstoppable (homebrew, not piracy) instead of worrying to provide quality software for the new machine. In example, the PSP has no new titles in America and Europe, but still gets new games in Japan, why does this happen?. The PS3 lost lots of exclusives by the release date, only retaining most of the Metal Gear line and Gran Turismo 5, and loosing the big battle horses Final Fantasy, Grand Theft Auto (which helped a lot to the PS2 and PSP to success), Call of Duty: Modern Warfare, Assassin's Creed, Devil May Cry and Resident Evil 5, to name the most important. Calling people "stupid" is not an argument, we (most of us) recall everything from records, our experience, memories, archives and magazines, and can say whos fault is it. Think of this. If you are the CEO of a car factory and sell a car with all kind of things in it and then in every car check you take away something, lets say the stereo or the A/C, with a lame excuse or motive, whos fault is it?, your's or the customer's?. Remember that the scene exists just to improve and add things that the console lacks of or fails to provide, nothing more. In the case of the car, if a client takes away the ****ty stock CD Player to put a better one and in the car check the factory sues the customer for changing the CD Player, whos fault is it?, the car factory's for putting a ****ty CD Player or the customer's for trying to listen to music in his legally bought car?.

well i understand you're point of view but the thing is i wasn't putting a argument as you may notice that post was my first one i don't like arguments as they are mostly opinion and every human has his own opinion i was putting a fact .
about that example believe me if that was the case then sony will never give a s**t
here is what really going on most people how do hacks are doing them so they can play games for free *me too but i buy the disc of a game i like *
which is the third company loose so why would a company transfer or program a game for ps3 when all their hard work and no one will buy it
they simply will stop and focus in other consoles or just pc
that what sony trying to stop, psp is the perfect example of that
sony are not stupid they learn from their mistakes .

[VideoX]

Originally Posted by Annelies PS1 was king of platforming games. PS2 was king of JRPG games. PS3 is kind of... I don't know what kind of games, lol.

Lately all the PS3 games are like inFAMOUS, Demon's Souls, Lost Planet and God of War/Uncharted. In resume, third person and first person platform/shooters. Racing games?, the Need for Speed series, Gran Turismo 5 and F1. Fighting?, Mortal Kombat and others. Sports?, all the EA's and Konami. RPG?, not sure, Final Fantasy and GTA. Action/Adventure?, Metal Gear Solid. Horror?, Silent Hill and Resident Evil. Thou I liked LBP, Flower, Castle Crushers, Scott Pilgrim vs. the World and many more.

The Wii is the king of family games.
The Xbox 360 is the king of war games.
The PS3... well, like Annelies said, I don't know what kind of games.

------------ #EDIT# -----------------

Originally Posted by omargx well i understand you're point of view but the thing is i wasn't putting a argument as you may notice that post was my first one i don't like arguments as they are mostly opinion and every human has his own opinion i was putting a fact . about that example believe me if that was the case then sony will never give a s**t here is what really going on most people how do hacks are doing them so they can play games for free *me too but i buy the disc of a game i like * which is the third company loose so why would a company transfer or program a game for ps3 when all their hard work and no one will buy it they simply will stop and focus in other consoles or just pc that what sony trying to stop, psp is the perfect example of that sony are not stupid they learn from their mistakes .

Sony gave a **** before, using their time and effort in improving the console instead of wasting them sueing everyone for everything.

If you go way back to the beginnings of the PSP's and PS3's scenes, you will notice that for the PSP, it was never pointed to piracy but to release applications needed in a handheld not provided by Sony, and with the PS3 was to get OtherOS back (what fail0verflow did by releasing the security flaws to the public was like a punishment to Sony for extorting the customers).

Third parties will stay designing and producing games as long as the console sells well. Look at the PS2, +10 years old, hacked to the bones, piracy doomed, yet still in production and new games come along. Why?, because Sony took care of the product and the game catalog since day 1. Most of the best games ever released are PS2 exclusives. The PSP is going down because of the bad marketing and direction positions taken in America and Europe. If third parties release to other platforms, will be piracy-free forever?... well, look it yourself, the Xbox 360, the Wii and the PC are the piracy pilars by far, yet all of those consoles got lots of new games every month.

Indeed, Sony learned from their mistakes, now they put a very important clause in their TOS products, "you will not sue Sony never for anything".

[sandungas]

Originally Posted by VideoX ...Which was the success formula for the PS1 and PS2?, exclusives. Hirai failed to achieve that still being an expert in the matter of software for the PS3 and PSP...

I agree with most you have said in your messages, but this argument about exclusive games is making my eyes bleeding

Dont want to make a discussion about this, but do you realize exclusives are bad for the consumer (us) ?
Dont think in them as a corporation estrategy, but the effects in the consumers, is easy to explain:

A potential consumer likes X type of games (or a franchise), then there are 2 options:
-If the game is released for all consoles --- The consumer can buy any of those consoles + the game
-If the game is released exclusive --- The only option for this consumer is to buy this console + the game

The first option is freedom of choose... while the second option is something close to "monopoly"


Fu©k exclusives, are not good for us (consumers), the only use of exclusives is:
-You can say to your friends... "it works in my console, and not yours, IN YOUR FACE"
-Generate fanboys

[Pockets69]

Originally Posted by sandungas I agree with most you have said in your messages, but this argument about exclusive games is making my eyes blood Dont want to make a discussion about this, but do you realize exclusives are bad for the consumer (us) ? Dont think in them as a corporation estrategy, but the effects in the consumers, is easy to explain: A potential consumer likes X type of games (or a franchise), then there are 2 options: -If the game is released for all consoles --- The consumer can buy any of those consoles + the game -If the game is released exclusive --- The only option for this consumer is to buy this console + the game The first option is freedom of choose... while the second option is something close to "monopoly" **** exclusives, are not good for us (consumers), the only use of exclusives is: -You can say to your friends... "it works in my console, and not yours, IN YOUR FACE" -Generate fanboys

yes yes they are bad from a costumer prespective, but he was talking about the brand/company prespective, it is what drives people to buy games, exclusives, but yeah i would prefer if every game would be release on every plataform than to have exclusives.
in the future i see an industry with no exclusives, appart from the machine brand of course.