[TizzyT]

Originally Posted by ryant001 let's examine this particular bootloader exploit:

OK lets

Originally Posted by ryant001 -squarepusher2 already confirmed that the exploit exist

I do not doubt squarepusher in anyway as I too have heard of and have some knowledge of such a thing existing, but last I heard it was not an exploit.

Originally Posted by ryant001 -marcan42 and other people have the exploit ready to use(no more development needs to be done)

Last I heard which was only ~2 days ago it is still incomplete.

Originally Posted by ryant001 -the exploit would be immensely useful for the end user if used correctly

Again from what I heard its not an exploit and while the work on bootldr mgiht/might not benefit the scene as in the result of this work bringing forth potential progress the actual work itself on bootldr is of no use to any end user.

[Gonzakpo]

Originally Posted by zecoxao sorry about that greg, mistake of mine

Actually, it was my mistake in the first place haha. Sorry for that! I've already fixed it.

[Wolfie708]

Originally Posted by TizzyT I can understand how you feel and all but what gives you or anyone the right to demand they give you something? let them work and if they create something along the lines of a dongle that is their choice and we will continue *****ing again. I'm not saying I support them keeping it private I actually like information to be public but what isn't mine I shouldn't take unless offered, at least that's my personal way of thinking. And like I've said they worked hundreds of hours to get to where they were and for one or few people it took to leak it in a second.... If you were them how would you feel? Again I'm not backing them in this or anything I'm just saying its not as though the task was something anyone could do, it took determination and skill to do what they did and for something like this to crush them, I find it understandable that they be at least a little pissed. And if something is being worked on that will/will not benefit the scene right now would you want it to be leaked even if it were incomplete? What use will it have to end users? The fact is we don't know so why demand it? Something as big as cex-dex was never meant to be leaked but to be properly released when ready, is waiting really so hard? PS: this isn't meant to be offensive just something to think about and my thoughts, hope this wasn't offensive sounding lol, if so please tell me and I will remove what I can.

Personally I have never demanded anything software-wise.

I like you mate, but I am genuinely curious how you can so blithely accept and seemingly support, the Fact, and is Is fact, that more than a small portion of the 'scene' devs have told outright lies about what was even possible, let alone how far they had gotten with it?

You keep mentioning rights, and I agree (I even posted something that agreed someone has no obligation to give their work away), but and HUGE but, I DO demand not to be lied to.

If you are ok with being lied to, then that's your choice, but I think if you check the posts from numerous respected members, and some devs, you will find that the Main argument is the deceit and lies.

I don't even have a PS3 any longer because I got bored with it and having to kiss bum to not upset the elite.

Respect is earned, so when the ones you are defending once again earn that respect they will be given it.

Simple human nature mate, people will not continue to support anyone who treats them as if they are less than they are.

[ryant001]

Originally Posted by TizzyT I do not doubt squarepusher in anyway as I too have heard of and have some knowledge of such a thing existing, but last I heard it was not an exploit.

Yeah i know, i just call it exploit for convenience sake.

Originally Posted by TizzyT Last I heard which was only ~2 days ago it is still incomplete.

Fair enough but it would be better if they could share this kind of information with a larger group of people.

Originally Posted by TizzyT Again from what I heard its not an exploit and while the work on bootldr mgiht/might not benefit the scene as in the result of this work bringing forth potential progress the actual work itself on bootldr is of no use to any end user.

That's why i said "if correctly used", it's obvious that the exploit,as i call it, alone wouldn't be that much useful for the end user.


My honest opinion is that the devs should release their findings(at least the not-patchable ones) even if they are incomplete and have other people give ideas/help in order to complete them faster and better.
I mean, just look at the cex2dex leak, after a week we have already a whole sh*tload of tools and tutorials to make the precess easier and faster.

[TizzyT]

Originally Posted by Wolfie708 Personally I have never demanded anything software-wise. I like you mate, but I am genuinely curious how you can so blithely accept and seemingly support, the Fact, and is Is fact, that more than a small portion of the 'scene' devs have told outright lies about what was even possible, let alone how far they had gotten with it? You keep mentioning rights, and I agree (I even posted something that agreed someone has no obligation to give their work away), but and HUGE but, I DO demand not to be lied to. If you are ok with being lied to, then that's your choice, but I think if you check the posts from numerous respected members, and some devs, you will find that the Main argument is the deceit and lies. I don't even have a PS3 any longer because I got bored with it and having to kiss bum to not upset the elite. Respect is earned, so when the ones you are defending once again earn that respect they will be given it. Simple human nature mate, people will not continue to support anyone who treats them as if they are less than they are.

I see and I agree with your point of view, maybe I haven't made myself clear sorry. I have only talked about the rights part and only wished to touch on that aspect, as for the Lies part I too do not like/want to be lied to, Although I do not think I have touched this area yet so let me do that now.

I have indeed seen lies spread across the forums and a number other places across the web but those lies were usually from trolling people who were just spilling non sense. The other lies I've seen are from math, while I do not doubt his knowledge on the PS3 we have all witnessed his way of trolling and vandalizing the wiki etc. You mentioned that devs have lied about what is possible and what is not, might that just be a simple mistake due to the lack of knowledge they had at the time of posting such information and later discovered that such things aren't true anymore? One doesn't have the time/memory to go back and fix it all, and hence why we have the wiki. Of course that brings us to the time when people said the wiki had false information besides the math incident. Keep in mind that the wiki is somewhat a collection of knowledge from hundreds of contributors and its people like euss and defyboy etc to over see them. To say that the wiki contains false information is basically bashing on people like euss and the contributors. Is it possible that the wiki might have a typo somewhere or that something is stated in a way that most people will misinterpret sure, but that is why things are constantly edited on the wiki. Like discussed in the past if you see something wrong on the wiki test it confirm it and the make a contribution to the wiki and correct it, or if you just want a quick look over find euss etc and request they read it over to confirm its accuracy.

Now for the devs I talk to on a regular daily basis like euss on irc and occasionally naehrwert, they haven't lied to me once. Every time they make a statement they reference me somewhere where I can read and understand more on what is being mentioned. Other devs like sandungas etc are always fun to talk to because they are sometime unsure and will state so and not lie about it, make me believe they are human unlike euss which makes me think im talking to an encyclopedia of the PS3 or even the world at times lol. Naehrwert has given me insight on concepts of many different things and while sometimes he doesn't reference me I do look them up .

I myself do not wish to lie to anyone and when I'm not sure about something I state so, sometimes with a simple "iirc" (If I remember/recall correctly), or a not sure. While lies in the scene exists don't just blame the devs as a general whole and take time too look into it and maybe you will see that its not always their intention to post information that doesn't match up with information of today.

Of course I cannot also deny the possibility of devs purposefully lying. I also cannot rule out the possibility that I too can/have come victim to such possible lies, although I have too much pride in myself to believe that lol I mean I always look up what I don't get or when somethings sounds fishy.

[BobbyBangin]

If there is an all out complete jailbreak and they are withholding it then they are wrong. If it's it's a work in progress then there's no need for a release. As far as the 100's of hours some devs have put into this I have serious doubts. Just as I'm sure there are other devs who have put in the time. I think it's clear that some of them obtained the information just the very same way we did. Others probably had to work for it. Still, it's becoming clear that probably a majority has known for at least a year now. I've said it before and I'll say it again, if devs get to decide who gets to obtain $ony's methods then the courts and $ony should be able to decide which devs have access to it. Just a week ago devs were crying saying end users were retarded and would have no idea what to do with this. Now we're already playing backups. I remember back when Deank released his method of ripping PS1 games with mM. I thought there had to be something more to it. Something like a week later a very simple method was released to play those burnt iso's via mM. Does that not seem ironic to anybody else? You can do the same with PS2 iso's thru Cobra but not without it? A lot of devs have possession of something that does not belong to them but hypocritically police it the same way they condemn $ony for. The progress that's been made so far only goes to show how much the devs shouldn't be the deciders of what end users are able to obtain.

[stuck?]

Originally Posted by TizzyT what gives you or anyone the right to demand they give you something?

^^^ I love this part. (had to enlarge it and make it stand out because, seriously.. it's so true).

We don't have any rights to demand answers from anybody's personal doings. What the devs do isn't public domain by any means. They're working on personal time, not like they work for a small or large company being paid to do these things.

Yeah, some of it is immoral (Dongle part), some of it is illegal (sdk's) and some of it is cool beans (emulators, showtime, etc (sorry for leaving people out)) but it's not our place to demand that we know every little thing about what's going on (or any thing for that matter).

My personal business is MY PERSONAL BUSINESS. Regardless if I am doing something for a group (scene) or not.

I don't necessarily agree to withholding the information or not giving progress updates personally, but honestly, things flow much smoother that way by keeping things under wraps.

I don't tell you guys about the dozens of bowel movements I trudge through each day. Maybe I will tease a bit talking about the colour and girth but... I don't think I'll ever leak any solid PROOF that I have all of these poops. However if you ask nicely, maybe I will be willing to oblige :D But if you call me a sh!tty bum or some bad names, you will get nothing! Don't whine about it!

[butnut]

The proof is in the, umm... pudding.

[ryant001]

Originally Posted by stuck? ^^^ I love this part. (had to enlarge it and make it stand out because, seriously.. it's so true). We don't have any rights to demand answers from anybody's personal doings. What the devs do isn't public domain by any means. They're working on personal time, not like they work for a small or large company being paid to do these things. Yeah, some of it is immoral (Dongle part), some of it is illegal (sdk's) and some of it is cool beans (emulators, showtime, etc (sorry for leaving people out)) but it's not our place to demand that we know every little thing about what's going on (or any thing for that matter). My personal business is MY PERSONAL BUSINESS. Regardless if I am doing something for a group (scene) or not. I don't necessarily agree to withholding the information or not giving progress updates personally, but honestly, things flow much smoother that way by keeping things under wraps. I don't tell you guys about the dozens of bowel movements I trudge through each day. Maybe I will tease a bit talking about the colour and girth but... I don't think I'll ever leak any solid PROOF that I have all of these poops. However if you ask nicely, maybe I will be willing to oblige :D But if you call me a sh!tty bum or some bad names, you will get nothing! Don't whine about it!

If they don't want people to expect things from them then they should just stop teasing with their little game of "we have this very l33t exploit but we aren't sharing because [insert usual piracy/sony is watching me/we decided users don't need it excuse here]".

[sandungas]

A couple of details needed to know before judging who is evil and who isnt...

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The cex2dex original conversion method was leaked from one guy to another, then leaked to a group of devs, then leaked publically by one of this devs

This method needed a secure connection with a sony server, with the purpose of updating the sony database with the "new identifyers" of the converted consoles
When the method was released publically the files doesnt contained any of the files needed for this connection with the sony server

Note that there was NO REVERSE ENGINEERING in this method (if there is some im blind)... all was based in a connection with a sony server and a pc tool (the pc tool is the intermediary between the ps3 and the sony server, and secures both connections)

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The new cex2dex conversion method is based in the decryption/encryption of EID
This is what taked months of investigation, and is done manually by reverse engineering all the modules that comunicates with EID

The releae of "libeeid" is a proof of the work done, and the "roseta stone" to understand how EID works

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EID contains several sections (6 or more)
Each section stores different data... and affects different "functions"
For the CEX2DEX only is needed to modify one of this sections... but libeeid can manage all the others !!!

Anybody knows what is "hidden" in the other sections ?... because is not documented (or not accurately)... so yes... WE ARE IGNORANTS, the better thing we can do is sit and wait


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The bootloader exploit theory (what Mathieulh explained) was wrote in this message (that i think has been edited, because i remember there was some more brainstorming about bootloader)
http://lan.st/showthread.php?p=22446