[GregoryRasputin]

Originally Posted by elopez I was just giving an opinion, but oh it is not the same than yours...so let's insult the stupid ass that thinks different that you do. It's ok man if that makes you happy...

I wasn't insulting you because your English and forum skills suck, i have zero problem with people thinking differently to me, unless they are wrong

Oh and you have to break the rules several times to actually get banned.

[SuperDre]

Originally Posted by GregoryRasputin It's cool dude, I know you are slightly retarded, because only a retard would think stealing other people's code and making profit from it is not stealing, so get of my dick dad.

But wait... A lot of people here are flaming deank for making a bit of money (if that's really proven) next to a version which works for free, but those same people only want CFW for stealing developers games, and are even *****ing about it if MM doesn't start such and so game or doesn't support some sort of ISO loading of an emulator which is even available on OFW..
I think most people are just hypocrits when they ***** at deank or any other developer (like back in the day on geohotz)..

Yes there are people here that actually only care about homebrew (like me, still haven't downloaded an illegal PS1-2-3 game), but most don't care about homebrew (except when their homebrew manager doesn't start their illegally downloaded game)..

But why just ***** and not just focus on the positive sides.. Yes deank propably made some money of the Cobraversion of MM, but he also gave back the free version..

This scene has scared off too many great developers by *****ing at them, and that should just stop, too many crybabies who only care about being able to play the latest illegal gamerip and not for the scene itself..

[GregoryRasputin]

Originally Posted by SuperDre But wait... A lot of people here are flaming deank for making a bit of money (if that's really proven) next to a version which works for free, but those same people only want CFW for stealing developers games, and are even *****ing about it if MM doesn't start such and so game or doesn't support some sort of ISO loading of an emulator which is even available on OFW.. I think most people are just hypocrits when they ***** at deank or any other developer (like back in the day on geohotz).. Yes there are people here that actually only care about homebrew (like me, still haven't downloaded an illegal PS1-2-3 game), but most don't care about homebrew (except when their homebrew manager doesn't start their illegally downloaded game).. But why just ***** and not just focus on the positive sides.. Yes deank propably made some money of the Cobraversion of MM, but he also gave back the free version.. This scene has scared off too many great developers by *****ing at them, and that should just stop, too many crybabies who only care about being able to play the latest illegal gamerip and not for the scene itself..

You can always f*ck off to PS3Crunch, your grey hair would match garyOPA's.

Funny you talk about hypocrites, when you support multiMAN, but you don't support what people use them for.

[KDSBest]

Originally Posted by TheLoro It really says a lot about a site when a moderator behaves this way, especially when people fat on free stuff take up the same thinking, if only because they love the hand that feeds them. I have to say that such people are the worst kind of follower because, while they're all supportive and even fanatical, they're so quick to turn and bite the same hand when things don't their way. I'm writing this to challenge the misconceptions about open source projects. Obviously, there aren't a lot of developers in this forum, else more would understand the nature of open source. If I am wrong about the # of devs, then I am disappointed about the lack of vocalization since most of what I'm about to say is true. Open source does not mean it is meant to be free, nor is it wrong when someone takes an open source project, makes enough changes to make it unique and releases it as closed source. Neither is it wrong when the same person makes money out of his work, even if he started out giving it for free. All open source licenses makes allowances for that, it is not wrong in any way. Just look at Canonical's Ubuntu. It's as if people here think developers don't have a right to earn a living. Other devs who come to read forum posts here would definitely feel some amount of sympathy for deank 100%. Every dev also knows that there is no such thing as 100% original code. Just by using an SDK (or any language for that matter), one is already reusing work done by others. Even if deank never wrote a single original line of code, which I doubt, putting things together is not as easy as detractors here may think. Try it out and you'll see. There will always be a time when you will need to confer for help or use the work of others to make things faster. Another thing is, there isn't a dev out there who would not want to simplify his revenue stream; to earn more by doing less. Sure, prolific devs may release projects that are forever free, but it is because they already have financial security, either by having a good job or having someone pay all their living expenses (for all the talented devs below 20). Whenever I see a project like MM collaborating with a commercial product like Cobra, I see someone who knows a lucrative opportunity, one that also allows him to do what he loves to do while making cash out of it. What's so evil about that? When someone calls such a thing as evil, I call that in turn hypocritical. Who wouldn't want to do what they love and get paid for it? I'm kind of disappointed at deank for opening his code. The disappointment does not come because he opened his code, that is always admirable, but because it seems he bent to all the negativity thrown his way, when he shouldn't have because it is cheapening his work for the wrong reasons. This opinion of mine is why I always caution aspiring devs to think twice about going down the road of open source, when their intent is to earn a living out of their work. Even if they mean to keep their work free, I still caution them because it is evident by the treatment of deank: you're only good when you spoil the people who follow your work. Doubt it? Even if deank never did a deal with Cobra, somewhere down the road, on another project outside multiman, if he starts it out charging for something a lot of people want (i.e "PLEAZE, I REALLY NEEDS THIS!!!"), most people will forget the good he gave and **** on his legacy. Like what we see here in HAX. Good day. Edit: I'm a developer versed in several top tier languages such as Java, C#, C and Python, used on projects both opened and closed, both free and for commercial use. So I know what I'm talking about.

First of all, there are no open source projects which are not free to use. That wouldn't make any sense at all. There are open source products which got more development added and support added and can be bought as commercial product open office and star office for example.

Originally Posted by TheLoro Open source does not mean it is meant to be free, nor is it wrong when someone takes an open source project, makes enough changes to make it unique and releases it as closed source. Neither is it wrong when the same person makes money out of his work, even if he started out giving it for free.

True.

Originally Posted by TheLoro All open source licenses makes allowances for that, it is not wrong in any way. Just look at Canonical's Ubuntu.

Not True. MIT license for example doesn't allow that IIRC. If you make changes to their code it has to be open source (all changes). You are free to use their code in your project, but changes in the code has to be open source again IIRC.

Originally Posted by TheLoro It's as if people here think developers don't have a right to earn a living. Other devs who come to read forum posts here would definitely feel some amount of sympathy for deank 100%.

There are two KDSBest, open source hacker and business man. The second one knows what you want to tell .

Originally Posted by TheLoro Every dev also knows that there is no such thing as 100% original code. Just by using an SDK (or any language for that matter), one is already reusing work done by others. Even if deank never wrote a single original line of code, which I doubt, putting things together is not as easy as detractors here may think. Try it out and you'll see. There will always be a time when you will need to confer for help or use the work of others to make things faster.

That's why software patents are bogus yes.

Originally Posted by TheLoro Another thing is, there isn't a dev out there who would not want to simplify his revenue stream; to earn more by doing less. Sure, prolific devs may release projects that are forever free, but it is because they already have financial security, either by having a good job or having someone pay all their living expenses (for all the talented devs below 20). Whenever I see a project like MM collaborating with a commercial product like Cobra, I see someone who knows a lucrative opportunity, one that also allows him to do what he loves to do while making cash out of it. What's so evil about that? When someone calls such a thing as evil, I call that in turn hypocritical. Who wouldn't want to do what they love and get paid for it?

My earn in this scene is just knowledge and nothing more and I'm doing alot . My projects are forever free for this scene. I don't want to make money with them, but I got a job as software engineer so I have financial security. There is nothing evil with collaborating with commercial products like Cobra, but beeing in a hacker scene and building a commercial product is simply wrong. Most people are here for the knowledge... I don't know if it is envy or so, but for me it is convincement, that commercial stuff has nothing todo in a hacker scene.

Originally Posted by TheLoro Edit: I'm a developer versed in several top tier languages such as Java, C#, C and Python, used on projects both opened and closed, both free and for commercial use. So I know what I'm talking about.

I'm a developer versed in over 30 language and used over 10 languages in professional (commercial) use. Working 5+ years as professional engineer and started my work next to school. I am developing software over 13 years ago and learned from my father, a great software engineer and hacker. He always told me one thing, if you will start a career as professional software engineer... It will never be a hobby again. That's true for most parts. The most software from the scene I saw are bad written (this counts for my SPU Emulator and stuff too). In big teams you just work differently. Since I love what I do, my hobby is reverse engineering and seeing results from that. Software engineering is my job. That's why I keep those source codes pretty simple... Not much architecture in it and mostly roughly written.

It is an opinion thingy if you think it is correct to bring commercial stuff in the hacker scene or not. I accept your opinion but I don't share it. There is nothing that will change that. If I want to make money with such kinda things I apply for a job as security consultant or security developer. Which I would do but I am just too lazy xD. Go to the Anti-Hacker part if you want to make money with Hacking stuff. You see deank put alot affort in MM (noone doubts that), you are right if he wants to make money out of it... He can. Cobra on the other hand use thousands of hours from other people. Steal it and make money out of it. You don't take ogre3d compile and rename it and sell it as commercial product. You will for sure get legal issues then! Belive me taking open source source code in your commercial product is different than using an open source project in your source code!

The reason why I don't want to make money in the PS3 scene is simple. I love it as a hobby, I am totaly aware of the difference if it is a job (with deadlines...) and if it is a hobby. If I start making money in the PS3 scene I have to tell/quit my job anyway and belive it or not the payment there I can't get out of the PS3 scene. I calculated it .

So if you are a talented developer under 20 (I worked with that age as professional developer already), don't be a social cripple and then you get a job in software engineer. All IT companies I know are great to work for. You will find other nerds and do get money for playing with them and software .
If you think you want to go for the big thing be a freelancer (If I were a freelancer I would have a daily payment for around 600-1000€, but this is pretty much risky thing. I like to chill do some work and get my normal payment which is way higher than the average in my country (all jobs).

If you are talented and want to get payed for security go for security consultant or security software engineer, but if you go for something like Cobra and stuff. You will rip off other developers or the money for time invested is way too low. So even if this guy above tells you "There is nothing to it". There is something too it, it is totaly rip off, but for you guys even worth. You could get more money with a normal job as software engineer (Consultants are mostly very well paid, that's why I'm one ).

Just my 2 cents.

[geeklogik]

My opinion, everyone needs to chill the f*ck out and maybe listen to some b marley

[deroad]

really? i really need to answer to this? =.=

Originally Posted by TheLoro ...

First thing: Open Source DOESN'T MEAN Free Software. So you are absolutely right, but (there is always a but XD ) when you say, Open Source you are talking about an idea that allows people to work together and learn/share knowledge.
Open Source projects (I'm going to copy wikipedia) are software products “available with its source code and under an open source license to study, change, and improve its design” (it's the FIRST sentences on wikipedia). Usually Open Source software is free, but devs can have some retributions in these ways:

• Donations.
• If you want software support you will need to pay/donate to the dev.
• Have a sponsor on your website (like ads).
• If your project is really complex you can earn on books that talks about it (for example if your project is a framework).

When you release an open source project, you usually add into that a license. some license doesn't allow close source. so if you use open source projects to make something, you usually need to release also the src.

Second thing: i worked with other people codes, and i always gave them all the credits if i took somebody else stuff and use it on mine. an example is my libmove. i wrote only the 20%? of it; most of the code come from bigboss and kakaroto. but their code was not written to be used as a lib. so i read their code and adapted to mine to have something that works like a lib.

Third thing: there are a lots of devs on this forum, and probably most of them doesn't care about flame here, flame there, bla bla bla.

Forth thing: (why i always need to post it? -.-" ) i worked with the brewology admin, i built an app to download homebrews from the brewology store and i never asked money for that. i don't have a job because i'm an university student, my parents aren't rich and here where i live there are a lot of financial crisis, so please DO NOT WRITE THAT THOSE WHO RELEASE FREE STUFF HAS GOOD RETRIBUTIONS. THAT'S NOT TRUE!

Fifth thing: deank started to be an "a$$hole" when he began to think to be god. i never wanted to be an a$$hole, but sometime i'm worse then him (who knows me in the real life, knows it very well..) but i never say something if i'm not sure about that. i always say "yes, sorry, you are right" if i make some mistake and i'm always happy to learn from mistakes. deank most of the times doesn't.

I'm going to finish my answer to your post in this way:

People makes their decision and then they follow it. sometime most of these are wrong and some are right, but open source is always better then close source.

Just by using an SDK (or any language for that matter)

I'm not saying that you are not a dev, but if you really are who you are saying to be, you should know that an SDK is not a programming language

PS: Ubuntu sell support and use a store to sell some non-free software. They makes money in that way.

[Korben]

Originally Posted by TheLoro ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ifJapuqYiU

You did no reply to this :

"He (Dean) used and is using codes and contributions from other developers (read @Estwald/Hermes and @deroad explanation about this) but do not share his own codes/contributions. If you want to talk about hypocrisis, there you go."

Actually, Dean decided to make multiMAN OpenSource since Hermes send him a direct message :

Orignal :

He visto que Deank está utilizando mis parches de ps1_emu. Eso no es problema, ya que precisamente, si hago públicas las cosas es para que cualquiera las pueda utilizar, evidentemente. El problema es que no tiene por costumbre liberar el código fuente respetando las licencias correspondientes y que no permite con ello que otros nos podamos beneficiar con sus aportaciones igual que él se beneficia de las nuestras.

Translated :

i've seen deank is using my patches of ps1_emu. This is no problem, if i made the source public its for anyone to come and use it... evidently. The problem is he doesn't respect the software licenses of code he uses and does not share his findings and code, so we can't benefit from his contributions the same way he benefits from the ps3 community contributions.

He did not decide to make multiMAN OpenSource because of PS3Hax members were doing a revolution against his Bloatman. He decided to make multiMAN OpenSource because he got ***** slapped by Hermes, telling him the sad and hard truth (shortly after @deroad explain him the nature of PSL1GHT).

On another topic (but related to this) :

Did anybody notice that the first time Dean decided to make multiMAN OpenSource, CobraManager was released a short time after this, and then, Dean re-closed the source.

Maybe it was a "smart" move to sell multiMAN to Cobra without looking like a complete sellout in front of the entire scene (well, when it happenned).

Anyway, @deroad and @KDSBest gave a better explanation about the "Dean case".

[3absiso]

Will to be honest; i think this thread is getting out of control.
And i must say, every one has his opinion in this matter. some of us with @GregoryRasputin point and some with @TheLoro point.
but why insulting each other and calling names.
till you truth, I love this Forum a lot and it is the only Forum i participate in and try to help as much as i can. but i hate to see this in this Forum and i mean a lot.
and i do not like to say what i think honestly in these kind of threads, without someone come and start calling me names, specially a lot of us here from different cultures.
Bottom Line for me, we have to accept other people opinion in this matter without calling names, this is what i think.

[BuC-ShoTz]

Attention

I don't care what your problem is, i don't care about your so called code, not that any of the code is yours, you steal it off other people, enjoy your ban, go back to fighting with kids on YouTube, you are great at that old man ~ GregoryRasputin

I stole @flatz code to make some lame Black Ops software, i steal other peoples code, because my coding sucks.....

Im a 32 year old red neck, who's major accomplishments include arguing with children on YouTube and making crappy Call Of Duty cheats, i thought i would come on to PS3HaX and talk sh*t because i love your penis @GregoryRasputin , i want it in my bum and want you to finish on my face.

[toolz]

Right listen to me all you numnuts
MultiMAN is poooop. Get over it
Get Irismanager and you will be saying
to yourself why the F*** did I install MM
In the first place. Rant over.


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