[OoZic]

Originally Posted by Deeked What do US Corporations really pay in taxes? http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/27597.html

Do you have a same kind of link to what they payed for bonuses?

I don't care that much what they pay for taxes. Because they don't pay it, we as customers pay it, and the company pays the money (we paid) to the state. They are only a kind of tax-holders. That simple it is

Salary and bonuses is another thing. We pay this also and I think a lot of people are not worth the money they get if I look at the mess they create (bankers etc.).

For bonuses is only one solution: Everyone within the company gets the same bonus. If a company's president thinks he earns a 10.000 euro/dollar bonus, every employee of his company earns the same bonus. The difference in salary is enough for their status feeling ... This way the need for making people more productive by a bonus stays but the manager kind of people can't take away (=steal imho) big sums of bonus money. It's a far more fair system.

The Roman Empire went down due to bureaucrats, we are going the same way, only world wide

[Deeked]

Originally Posted by OoZic Do you have a same kind of link to what they payed for bonuses?

What does it matter to you the consumer or the GOVERNMENT what kind of bonus an individual from a PRIVATE Corporation gives to it's employees? All the time we hear about how we need to go to school and get a good education so we can be successful. Why, when all those that are successful are demonized? Raise taxes? Okay, then those costs will be passed down to you and me, the consumer, in the form of higher cost for goods and services.

I think most of the problem today is with the younger generation growing up getting everything they want without taking any responsibility what so ever. Everyone gets a ribbon or trophy, there is no competition because they don't want any feelings hurt. WTF is that? I was told when I got out of school that no matter what, in order to succeed, I had to not do as good as others around me, but to look at the best and most successful around me and try to do better than them. Seems to have worked out well for me so far as I make about $35,000 more a year than the average individual in my area. Washington DC.

Originally Posted by OoZic The Roman Empire went down due to bureaucrats, we are going the same way, only world wide

Exactly, the bureaucrats, not the BIG CORPORATIONS and the RICH people with their Yachts and Private Jets, like Obama and the Democrats would have us to believe.

[OoZic]

Originally Posted by Deeked What does it matter to you the consumer or the GOVERNMENT what kind of bonus an individual from a PRIVATE Corporation gives to it's employees? All the time we hear about how we need to go to school and get a good education so we can be successful. Why, when all those that are successful are demonized? Raise taxes? Okay, then those costs will be passed down to you and me, the consumer, in the form of higher cost for goods and services. I think most of the problem today is with the younger generation growing up getting everything they want without taking any responsibility what so ever. Everyone gets a ribbon or trophy, there is no competition because they don't want any feelings hurt. WTF is that? I was told when I got out of school that no matter what, in order to succeed, I had to not do as good as others around me, but to look at the best and most successful around me and try to do better than them. Seems to have worked out well for me so far as I make about $35,000 more a year than the average individual in my area. Washington DC. Exactly, the bureaucrats, not the BIG CORPORATIONS and the RICH people with their Yachts and Private Jets, like Obama and the Democrats would have us to believe.

Lol, sorry to disappoint you, "Occupy Wall Street" isn't worried about someone with your salary. I'm glad you can make your living and maybe some savings for later

I am talking about another kind of people. Take Leo Apotheker from Hewlett Packard for example, he worked only 11 months for HP:

Apoteker’s goody bag includes: *$7.2 million in severance to be paid over the next 18 months. *Accelerated vesting of 156,000 restricted shares, with a value of $3.56 million. *424,000 performance-based restricted stock units, the value of which will depend on HP’s performance. *A $2.4 million bonus for his 11 months of service. *Coverage under HP’s standard relocation and housing assistance programs; he gets up to $300,000 to cover any losses or other expenses related to the sale of his house in California. *Medical coverage for up to 18 months. *Payment for legal fees related to negotiating his exit package. *And coverage under HP’s standard expat tax equalization program in the event he moves to France or Belgium.

Can you find any page on the net with a positive thing Leo Apotheker has done for HP (or for SAP, his former employer) ?

With your salary you must be educated.... please explain why he deserves this kind of payment? Is he really 200X better than you and me?

A TV station here did an experiment some time ago. They took an ape from the ZOO and let him choose shares from companies. After that they went to professional investors from some big banks and asked them to pick the shares that would make profit. After a year they compared the results between the ape and the professionals and guess what? The ape made more money
What kind of salary do you think the professional investors get at the banks they work for?

This is the thing I am mad about. People getting big money for their position, not for their hard work. They can ruin a company and still get their bonus.
And how about if you worked for HP and got fired because of their billion dollar loss, you would still be happy with Leo his bonus or would you think you might have still worked there if he wouldn't have killed HP almost and also got this stupid goodbye bag?

And people like Leo Apotheker aren't hard working people, they are the (stealing) bureaucrats within the company

And in my country it is very normal to hire ex political people for a commissioner post at a big company. They work for Shell, ABN AMRO, ING and that kind of companies, with a million salary of course

[screwhead]

Their is only three ways to change the world with a gun,a microphone, or a machine. I'm ready for all. We fight the system everyday here with our machines.

[KillerBug]

Originally Posted by alienkid I guess it depends on what one calls rich. Here's an example: Jay-Z, Rapper, Initially from the ghetto, Descendant from Slaves. = Made it, Loaded, Paid. I've never heard him say someone was holding him down.... and the odds were against him considering where he hails from. Derrick Rose, Chicago Bull, Chicagoan-Englewood Community, Descendant from Slaves. I've never heard him say someone was holding him down and the odds were against him considering where he hails from. This, I personally know cause I'm from the same wretched community. I could go on an on with folks I know who made it from the ghetto that became financial guru's, doctors, lawyers music legends. The overall attitude was, I gotta get mines. The "G" is ALWAYS gonna be a burden to deal with. I guess what I'm saying is I agree with what you're saying but there are different levels of being "rich" and you can't let that stop you from trying. I don't need the Buffet, Gates, Jobs (RIP) money. All I need is the opportunity (Education -traditional and/or street-, Hustle, Drive) to get that IF, I want it.

Even in the days of soviet Russia there were token achievers to make everyone else think that they just happened to be unlucky or lacking in commitment...but the fact is that there are only so many of these places available...and when one person makes it, that just means that countless more don't. How many rappers and basketball players are out there, living below the poverty line, with just as much commitment as Jay-Z and Derrick Rose? Sure, the system is always going to let a few people through...the best of the best and even then, only those with incredible luck. These people are let through because they give false hope to the rest, and also because they can be used by the truly rich to take slightly more of the pie from the masses.

The fact is that the handful of people who make it are shown as examples of what you can do if you put your all into something and never let go...and the vast majority of people who try this end up losing everything, and are shown as examples of what happens when you don't play by the rules...but they all played the same game the same way...some were just lucky enough to be in the right place at the right time on the right day of the right month of the right year, with the right specific combination of skills and genes. Do those who come second place truly deserve to become destitute, and if so, why do we hold up the winners as examples of how to achieve?

[Señor_Striatum]

In all reality we are very a**backwards here in the U.S. I support the occupy wall street movement but am not very optimistic of the turn out. In light of this Jay Z business, I think it is ridiculus that our contribution to the world is entertainment, which translates to the capatalization on the mass induction of false dreams. The other day Kim Kardashian was PAID! to make an appearance here in my home town. WTF has she contributed to our society to get paid to show up somewhere? A f***ing sex tape? Really!? I was in the lab all night busting my balls for our society and for a sh** paycheck while this b***** is out partying while making money? Sorry, I get worked up thinking about the exploitation that goes on here in the U.S that is absolutely dismissed.

In regards to the occupy wall street movement, what we are witnessing is a movement that is trying to seperate politics and money...this is not going to happen. Among the protestors are individuals who recognize that the system we are in is, in a sense, modern day slavery. A system in which the masses are exploited and enriched in false hope and false dreams. It may be that I was born and raised in america and am therefore blinded, but I have the mentality that big business and politics go hand in hand and this is just the way things are and I will continue to "just get by" with my s**ty life (in comparison to corporate big wigs) since I know no different and things are not going to change. I really cant imagine a revolution occuring that would suggest otherwise and I really cant even imagine what that would entail.

[alienkid]

Originally Posted by KillerBug The fact is that the handful of people who make it are shown as examples of what you can do if you put your all into something and never let go...and the vast majority of people who try this end up losing everything, and are shown as examples of what happens when you don't play by the rules... but they all played the same game the same way...some were just lucky enough to be in the right place at the right time on the right day of the right month of the right year, with the right specific combination of skills and genes. Do those who come second place truly deserve to become destitute, and if so, why do we hold up the winners as examples of how to achieve?

That is exactly what I'm try to say, NEVER QUIT.

In response to the bold part,

The individuals I used as an example like all who had/have a dream, has encountered that, more times than not. That's what motivated them more. That's what fueled their dream like all who have a dream. I dare not say "someone allowed them to get in" as a pawn. If that's the case why does anyone do what what they do?

Don't get me wrong, I totally understand what you mean about people with Power. What's changed since man has walked the Earth?

There's always gonna be folks who want everything given to them, Rich and Poor. What's changed since man has walked the Earth?

[KillerBug]

The fact is that if you keep pushing and never quit, you are far more likely to end up in prison than at the top...and then your "never quit" plan will involve a prison escape and fleeing to mexico.

BTW...if you really believe the things you are saying, why are you here? Why aren't you on the street selling crack to pay for your studio time or planning to break the legs of someone who has better genes and can jump higher, and has just as much commitment? Heck, even if you stick to perfectly legal routes with the false belief that this might work, why do you play video games??? Shouldn't you be reading a book or something?

[alienkid]

Originally Posted by KillerBug Why aren't you on the street selling crack to pay for your studio time...

LOL,
Wow. All respect due KillerBug, that's a pretty foul statement. Almost racist in my book.

You're cool with me KillerBug. I had a lot of respect for you even though we have two different outlooks. But that statement...foul.

[Darkd10]

Yes I do. We need a movement like said movement in our country to help push economic and political reform. I don't think we will ever reach a higher pinnacle without a little rebellion.

I knew sooner or later we would have the neo-socialist protest. Who knew it would be sooner?