[concretecork]

Originally Posted by hellsing9 You missed ONE tiny detail that invalidated all the rest of your point of view. Im not *American*. Im SOUTH AMERICAN. So..you commited the worst and most common mistake = Generalize.

he didn't only generalize that prejudice Bass terd stereotyped Americans.

[ducklord]

Originally Posted by hellsing9 You missed ONE tiny detail that invalidated all the rest of your point of view. Im not *American*. Im SOUTH AMERICAN. So..you commited the worst and most common mistake = Generalize.

Did I mention anywhere that I was refering only to Americans? I said that "I'm talking about you, who seems to have a trait that I see a lot mainly in the Americans - I - happen to have met on teh internets". Not that "you are American" but that "you do something I see a lot of my American friends doing". You could be from Zimbabwe for all I know.

And does that not-generalization of mine make my other points moot?

[hellsing9]

Originally Posted by ducklord Did I mention anywhere that I was refering only to Americans? I said that "I'm talking about you, who seems to have a trait that I see a lot mainly in the Americans - I - happen to have met on teh internets". Not that "you are American" but that "you do something I see a lot of my American friends doing". You could be from Zimbabwe for all I know. And does that not-generalization of mine make my other points moot?

(Here I should mention that with the "us" I actually refer to "you", or rather "most of you". I'm not American or British or whatever "the good guys" usually happen to be. And, nah, I'm neither one of the "bad ones", aka "Them frickin' Nazis", or Zombies, or other afformentioned parties.)

That's something I think I see a lot especially in Americans (as an outsider - I don't live there and I may have a distorted idea of your way of life, ideals, way of thinking): instead of facing some hard issues and dealing with them, you prefer to hide them under the carpet. It happens in movies, in music, in literature and now in games. And I'm not saying that it happens only in America, just that I see more Americans (to clarify: "in them internets", not in real life) than anyone else having this stance.

instead of facing some hard issues and dealing with them, you prefer to hide them under the carpet.

And does that not-generalization of mine make my other points moot?

You generalize and abuse from a stereotype that was a conjecture ellaborated from your own hands and way of thinking. I (personally) don't think like an American. I think the way i think, there's no nationality or flag involved on this.
So you rendered all the valid points on your own opinion = obsolete, making assumptions how americans hide their problems under their carpets.
Im not American, believe it or not. It's your choice.

I rest my case.

[ducklord]

Originally Posted by hellsing9 You generalize and abuse from a stereotype that was a conjecture of yours. I don't think like an American. I think the way i think, there's no nationality or flag involved on this. So you rendered all the valid opinion obsolete, making assumptions how americans hide their problems under their carpets. Im not American, believe it or not. It's your choice. I rest my case.

Look, I guess the problem lies mainly in the barier of language. English ain't my mother tongue. When I mentioned the "you", the "meaning I wanted to pass" (if that makes sense in English) is of "the official stance that we, as outsiders, think that Americans have" regarding some matters, like rape. I'm not saying that Americans are that way, and that's why I tried to give emphasis to the "my point of view" part of it.

"My point of view", coming from speaking with people that live or lived in America, from media (movies, music, literature, games), is that many people "over there" feel offended after seing a boob, but not after seing a split head. I've seen lots and lots of movies targeted at the PG13 market having buckets'o'violence, but a movie with a boob automagically gets the PG15 rating. Isn't that some kind of indication that "this is a way of thinking in America"? Am -I- "stereotyping"?

And, really, let's say I wrongly put all of "you" in the same basket (which I didn't - I think I explained what I meant and what gives me that impression about many Americans). Isn't "generalizing" on your behalf saying that "if I'm wrong on one thing, I'm wrong in everything"?

-EDIT-
Edited to clarify that with the last "you" I am not refering to "you" as a person, but to "you" as "part of a group of people that live in the general area of the US of A and not in any other countr".
************* [ - Post Merged - ] *************

Originally Posted by concretecork I am american, and we are that way. ... You pee'ons everybody that is not "a good guy" have no problem asking us to come in to places and fight because you dont have the resources or backbone to do it. Most of the time the US has to lead in such ventures or nobody else want to do anything about it. ... We as americans have more freedom than most places which lead us to be more free with what we say and do. If your father got his fingers cut off for stealing a neighbors chicken, I'm sorry but it's not my problem. I do not agree with everything my country does, But who the f*ck are you to try to put this all on us. And when i say us i mean "the good guys" a**h0le.

For anywhere but in America, when a thief is caught, they cut his fingers. That coming from someone that feels offended from "generalizing". Please, did really the "good guys" thing offend you? Okay. Show me an American-made game where the French-speaking Asian dude is the hero. Or the Italian plumber...! Isn't it, in 9 out of 10 games, "a semi-muscular dude from somewhere in America that fights people or things from elsewhere"? Dunno, could be my idea.

[concretecork]

Originally Posted by ducklord For anywhere but in America, when a thief is caught, they cut his fingers. That coming from someone that feels offended from "generalizing". Please, did really the "good guys" thing offend you? Okay. Show me an American-made game where the French-speaking Asian dude is the hero. Or the Italian plumber...! Isn't it, in 9 out of 10 games, "a semi-muscular dude from somewhere in America that fights people or things from elsewhere"? Dunno, could be my idea.

I'm not offended easily, I have been de-sensitized. as for your game you asked about... Stranglehold... Now F*ck off you prejudice prick

[ducklord]

Originally Posted by concretecork I'm not offended easily, I have been de-sensitized. as for your game you asked about... Stranglehold... Now F*ck off you prejudice prick

Really? Just... Really? I clearly say that in most games the hero happens to be an American, but that's not somethhing that happens but a lie I fabricated? So, ISN'T an American the protagonist of most games? Do you really see multicultural people from all coutries depicted equally in games? Aren't games stereotyping characters based on their ethnicity?

I mean, an Italian is almost always depicted as a member of the Mafia - or other "crime familly". Asians are either ninjas or members of the Yakuza. Young people are always interested in cars and women with huge breasts. Women don't do anything but shop and try to find Mr. Perfect. That's what I meant with the "good guys" thing you didn't get: that in this world of stereotypes, "the mostly met stereotype of the American" is that of the lowly army grunt that gets to be the hero. Have I been playing the wrong kind of games?

[playerkp420]

@ducklord

[hellsing9]

Originally Posted by ducklord Click here to see full text Really? Just... Really? I clearly say that in most games the hero happens to be an American, but that's not somethhing that happens but a lie I fabricated? So, ISN'T an American the protagonist of most games? Do you really see multicultural people from all coutries depicted equally in games? Aren't games stereotyping characters based on their ethnicity? I mean, an Italian is almost always depicted as a member of the Mafia - or other "crime familly". Asians are either ninjas or members of the Yakuza. Young people are always interested in cars and women with huge breasts. Women don't do anything but shop and try to find Mr. Perfect. That's what I meant with the "good guys" thing you didn't get: that in this world of stereotypes, "the mostly met stereotype of the American" is that of the lowly army grunt that gets to be the hero. Have I been playing the wrong kind of games?

No, i really don't know what American dream is about. But you are not what you play that's for sure.
Im half korean, and i don't feel offended when some koran guy in crysis is killed.
It's a game.
Niether the Italians, on AS or the Spanish users on Resident Evil 4.
Yeah some *Sectors* can be offended but it's a game.
It's not about the flag, it's about the content of the game.

You are not a Yakuza because you played yakuza.
Me niether.

[ducklord]

@playerkp420 : If I remember correctly, just before I was accused of stereotyping Americans I was trying to say that we shouldn't react to the depiction of rape in the new Tomb Raider by painting "anything with rape in it as bad". By "stereotyping" the act of rape with Rapelay as a model. Or that was what I was trying to say.

@helsing9: I totally agree with you. I used the examples to (try to) explain that when I mentioned "the good Americans" and "the other bad guys" I wasn't talking about real people, but characters in the plot of a game. Exactly like when somebody doesn't necesserily get offended when he sees "his own people die from the bullets of an American hero in a game", in exactly the same way a rape victim won't necessarily get offended by a scene of a rape in a game. We understand that a) it's a game and b) the specific part (the killing of some people that could be of the same ethnicity as the player - the action of the rape) is but a piece of a larger context, and its wrong singling it out and crucifying it.

Instead, some people were saying "it's rape, it doesn't have place in a game". And in exactly the same manner someone could say "it's the killing of my people, it doesn't have place in a game". And then another one, and another one. And, at the end, all games would be clone of cooking mama. But without meat, so as not to offend the vegans and vegetarians. Or cooked food, so as not to offend people who prefere to eat food raw. Or even raw food, so as not to offend the food itself.

- EDIT -
Fixed a typo. There should be boatloads of more - please, excuse my poor use of the English language.

[BobbyBangin]

Originally Posted by hellsing9 I (personally) don't think like an American. I rest my case.

Enlighten me...what exactly does an American think like? It would seem to me that we're all here of different nationalities and origins on these threads thinking the same way. To be honest, I see less stereotyping of other cultures by Americans on this thread. The only thing that exceeds bashing Americans on this site is dongle bashing. I have yet to say one disparaging thing about any other nationality but I have been bashed on my many threads for being American. You should also know to think like an American would be different in New York thank it would be in California or Texas. You shouldn't generalize so much. My wife is not American. I guess my open mindedness must be one of my American thinking errors. I'm not sure what a rape scene in Tomb Raider has to do with American thinking. It's largely shunned in our society. Sh!t happens but I wouldn't think just because a terrorist cuts somebody's head off on the internet in the name of Allah that all Muslims do the same. I would be more concerned when a rape scene doesn't bother somebody.